catbarf on 2/10/2007 at 21:13
Quote Posted by Peterus
Actually, it's quite consistent.
Beta Grove was used by Shodan for viral tests. However Citadel systems recognized it as biohazard and sealed off crucial higher levels of the station. Haker didn't jettison it for fun, he had to do it to get another elevator running.
Tau Ceti is relatively close star and Shodan might've targeted it. In solar system Beta grove (which had no defences) would be easily destroyed by humans. From Tau Ceti she had some minor chances of retriving cargo in far future. And superinteligences may look so far in the future planning world domination :).
Closest star is obvious destination for first flight of an interstellar vessel. So Von Braun would get there too.
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BTW I didn't like horroreresque ending of System Shock 2 and consider it a plot hole. Von Braun and "grunt" survived unharmed. Even if woman in the shuttel was severly implanted and had these implants without protection and with "built-in" comms capable of downloading superinteligence (kinda risky assumption) ... Shodan was done for anyway. Coming back to Von Braun = being executed by "grunt" (you fought like hell when she had whole ship... now when she's on the shuttle you'll just blow her up from the sky after sensing something is wrong with ur wicked hacking skills/wicked psychic abilities). Floating around in space = all what is left for her is a shuttle (nice domain ...). Going back to Earth = it's years of flight with assetss close to 0 and pitted against humanity... another suicide.
No plot holes...? In the time it took for the grove to reach TC, it would have to accelerate to 1/3 light speed. That's a little extreme.
gregor_y on 3/10/2007 at 06:22
System Shock 2 well great game but why only 1 ending...?
Why cant i join Shodan if you think about it ppl are insects and we do lot worse things sometimes for almost nothing things than Shodan did any way keep in mind that it got it ethical things removed by human becouse other human ordered him so its not Shodan fault shes little evil...
But maybe after hm no idea fusion with human body Rebecca or something it will got some fealings like fear,pity,sympaty maybe even love and its machine so maybe cant lie and be loyal friend...
Still human brain is best computer so Shodan+human brain will be even more strong than our hacker at end of ss2 and im quite sure Rebecca Shodan got almost unlimited supply of cybermodules so it will ne quite powerfull...
Any way even after watching ending again im pissed main hero says naa or nah and thats all and shots...sorry but after that im even more on Shodan side...only i get fealing most humans are morons?
And theres 1 interesting thing Shodan in body of Rebbeca called Tommy lover not insect why its remains of human part or becouse she got body and new fealing she dident know earlier maybe she will be good in ss3 and our moron hacker will be bad guy who can say only 1 word and shot and as Rebbecca Shodan we will kill evil corporation wich broght her to live?:)
In scene when Rebbeca and Tommy run from rumbler on deck 6 if i remember well Tommy says/yells he was biten by worm in leg so in escape pod/shuttle are reincarnation of Shodan n human body and Tommy prodobly infected by many...
Any way about morality there is good TV series Battlestar Galactica and well Cylons remind me of Shodan...same reasons why hate humans... best thing to know that humans are scums of course not all but those good ones are less and less...
Episode called Blackmarket in short Humans got kicked by robots only 50k survived and are one the run are last survivors and insted of thinking how to make living better they make Blackmarket and are stealing medical supplys to sell them for cash...prostitution(even children...in this part i was even more pissed...),drugs,alkochol,gambling but for what $$$ is worth nothing becouse there is nothing to buy...thats sick in my opinion but if you got eyes open thats what humans are...so i hope Shodan or something will blast most of evil ppl to hell or we do it our self sooner or later cheers :ebil:
Jeshibu on 3/10/2007 at 10:27
Quote Posted by gregor_y
System Shock 2 well great game but why only 1 ending...? why cant i join Shodan if you think about it ppl are insects and we do lot worse sometimes for almost nothing things than Shodan did any way keep in mind that it got it ethical things removed (by human becouse other human ordered him so its not Shodan fault shes little evil...) but maybe after hm no idea fusion with human body Rebecca or something it will got some fealings like fear,pity,sympaty maybe even love and its machine so maybe cant lie and be loyal friend...but still human brain is best computer so Shodan+human brain will be even more strong than our hacker at end of ss2 and im quite sure Rebecca Shodan got almost unlimited supply of cybermodules so...any way even after watching ending again im pissed main hero says naa or nah and thats all and shots rotf sorry but after that im even more on Shodan side...only i get fealing most humans are morons? and theres 1 interesting thing Shodan in body of Rebbeca called Tommy lover not insect why its remains of human part or becouse she got body and new fealing she dident know earlier maybe she will be good in ss3 and our moron hacker will be bad guy who can say only 1 word and shot and as Rebbecca Shodan we will kill evil corporation wich broght her to live?:)
Any way about morality there is good TV Battlestar Galactica and well Cylons remind me of Shodan...same reasons why hate humans... best thing to know that humans are scums of course not all but those good ones are less and less is episode called Blackmarket in short Humans got kicked by robots only 50k survived and are one the run are last survivors and insted of thinking how to make living better they make Blackmarket and are stealing medical supplys to sell them for cash...prostitution(even children...in this part i was even more pissed...),drugs,alkochol,gambling but for what $$$ is worth nothing becouse there is nothing to buy...thats sick in my opinion but if you got eyes open thats what humans are...so i hope Shodan or something will blast most of evil ppl to hell or we do it our self sooner or later cheers :ebil:
ow, my brain
William Dojinn on 3/10/2007 at 14:35
I don't know what's worse, that I could read it or could halfway understand what he was trying to say.
Someone stab my brain with a q-tip.
gregor_y on 3/10/2007 at 18:57
Quote Posted by William Dojinn
I don't know what's worse, that I could read it or could halfway understand what he was trying to say.
Someone stab my brain with a q-tip.
Bump it not that bad i try to edit it and fix so it will be more readable any way if you read it slow you should get the point :)
Kolya on 4/10/2007 at 01:43
gregor_y: I remember Ken Levine once said, he'd choose SHODAN over the Many any day. That was in the context of what they represent as social alternatives. He tried to make a point in SS2 already (and of course in Bioshock again), that too much bureaucracy, or plain too much state, would slow economy down and was ultimately to be avoided. That's what the UNN and the Many both were.
The other side is SHODAN and Trioptimum, the latter being embodied by former gangster - now head of company - Anatoly Korenchkin.
Fortunately things aren't that easy in SS2. SHODAN is a rogue AI and Triop is a sort of rogue corporation who both will do anything to get and stay in power.
Now your sympathy for SHODAN as a "person" seems a bit naïve. Because she has no sympathy for you - the player. She doesn't even know sympathy. Instead she tries to kill you as soon as she has no use for you anymore.
It also seems very unlikely that SHODAN will become all nice once she possesses Rebecca's body. Her act is very menacing in the last cutscene. I wouldn't make too much from the fact that she calls Tommy "lover". It's just because she knows that Tommy and Rebecca were lovers.
In short: Most people think that most people are morons. That doesn't make SHODAN any better.
gregor_y on 4/10/2007 at 08:28
Well i played Bioshock and it was not bad but it was ripped ss2 but the thing about city were interesting and all the plot i liked it so if some one dident play play it its fun but its more fps but if you leasen all audio logs you can really like it i hope for expansion or showing how the city fallen :)
About Shodan well we never know until we meet real Shodan?:) but well if it wasent for player Shodan would not survive the ending kinda bugs me...out hero says nah and shoots what if he said something difrent? ofcourse he would become cyborg/robot but with those googles on his head dosent matter to much anymore :laff:
Any way why i think Shodan would be diffrent in human body well again i think its evolution ...in BattleStarGalactica robots after some years changed from metal to flesh human ofcourse little improved they cant get sick and they cant die if they die they reborn in new body...there are if i remember were 6 models of robots in human body and 2 of them got fealings becouse of that body and eventualy changed side to help humans of course humans dident trust them at begining but after time well even formed bounds betwean them :) there were even children born from relationship cylon-human...
Sorry but again i must refere to BSG there robot in human body seduced guy and thx to that well they turned down all defences when they atacked making humans fleet destroyed in secounds...that can happen if Shodan reaches earth...
Any way my point is we never know what will become of Shodan thats up for team making game but i think they will steal some ideas from TV and other games so we can have that Shodan will be good guy i cant think she can be more evil :)
Last thing Shodan admited creation of Many were mistake so she learns on her mistakes and humans cant world war 1 & ww2 prove it and other pointles stuff...any way i know germans started both wars but well i think if my country were in place of germany they would start those 2 wars...my point is if human got to much power hes going nuts and he all know what shit happens on wars...
I could point some things from movie called Equalibrium but its not about humans vs robots but humans vs humans i know sound like nothing new but...those 2 sides are difrent 1 dont got fealling thx to special drug they dont fell anything no love,hate,fear,pity nothing and the humans dident take drug well they are hunted down and killed funny thing is leader that gives this drug to his ppl is not taking it him self so he got fellings but why he gives it to ppl becouse he got the power and no one wants to replace him becouse they dont feal nothing...
btw.Thats not Tommy anymore he was bitten in leg by worm so hes prodobly Many and prodobly there will be love story with Tommy and Rebbeca and uber cyborg will be born :laff:
Kolya on 4/10/2007 at 13:50
Many people had their problems with the ending of SS2 (the "Nah!" especially), so you're not alone with that. But SHODAN becoming good and that hot steaming robot sex stuff, that's neither evolution nor has it anything to do with the existing System Shock series. It's a possibility of course, but not one I'd like to see. And it doesn't lend itself to become the background story for a video game unless you want SS3 to be a Japanese dating sim.
Well I've never seen Battle Star Galactica and Equilibrium neither. But the latter sounds like it takes some ideas from Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.
gregor_y on 4/10/2007 at 15:45
Quote Posted by Kolya
Many people had their problems with the ending of SS2 (the "Nah!" especially), so you're not alone with that. But SHODAN becoming good and that hot steaming robot sex stuff, that's neither evolution nor has it anything to do with the existing System Shock series. It's a possibility of course, but not one I'd like to see. And it doesn't lend itself to become the background story for a video game unless you want SS3 to be a Japanese dating sim.
Well I've never seen Battle Star Galactica and Equilibrium neither. But the latter sounds like it takes some ideas from Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.
Japanese dating sim hell yee ok kidding with this one :)
Well ending sucks in short and final fight too if they make ss3 like that maybe its better if they dont make it...and about BSG and Equalibrium well they worth the time :)
1 thing about ss2 i think it was not finished......yes i know it sounds crazy but after deck 3 game is crapy not scary not interesting even the audio logs are worse i think they just wanted to finish it as fastest they can and sell it it could be reason for crapy ending and some plots they dident implant...
OK im not sure about it but you see a big gap with Shodan sorry but well if you played game from begining to end you notice that:
1.Shodan takes personality of Polito becouse she needs you and to gain trust
2.On deck4 she calls you insect blabla and her story...
3.After that well after running erands for her she well i think she changes her attlitude towards player speaking about being general (something like diego in ss1) and alliance...
4.And after running more errands she wants to kill you and thats why i dont understand it why can i have 2 way 1 decline offer and kill Shodan and 2 join her?
Sorry im maybe wrong but this is how it looks and in final intro things she says again working for her? rotf sorry but i think something was cutted out and well thats why whole game is crap after deck3...Rickenback i finished in very fast...
About ss3 well not sure but i dont want to see Many or Shodan in it again we got them in ss2 maybe something new dont get me wrong Shodan was cool idea but how many times you got to kill him maybe this time you will kill Trioptimum so it will be something like Deus ex?
About that robot sex thing well in BSG well if you watch you will know buy it on dvd or download from web in my opinion very good TV series thx to politics and moral things also contains great battle scenes.
About Equalibrium same like BSG buy or download watch it good movie.
Any way sorry to bring so much TV stuff but i think they are good source for game makers...
sacolton on 4/10/2007 at 21:15
One thing that has me curious ...
How is it that SHODAN can speak perfectly whilst imitating Polito, but she has a huge stuttering problem when she uses her own voice? What was the reason for her stuttering? Software glitch?
