So... no World Cup thread yet? (also featuring TTLG fantasy world cup game) - by D'Arcy
Myoldnamebroke on 31/5/2006 at 07:34
'They'd be in anyone's starting lineup' is a lazy football cliche and doesn't need that much read into it ;)
Naartjie on 31/5/2006 at 09:07
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hell if our parents had pushed us you or i could have probably played EPL level...
Please don't tell me you're serious :) I know guys who have genuine skills and footballing ability who wouldn't get into my local 3rd division side. The fallout rate for aspiring professional footballers is enormous.
zacharias on 31/5/2006 at 10:29
Sure, i'm serious. The fallout rate might be sky high, that is kind of the flipside of the point i'm trying to make: there are heaps of kids around with enough basic talent, ultimately it's all persistence/fitness/training/being in the right place at right time/being really single-minded about football etc.
I realise it does require serious time and commitment/energy, but they're the barriers moreso than even skill. I know this is kind of a circular argument though..but..
Remember kids, if David Batty made it, you can too!
SD on 31/5/2006 at 14:51
Quote Posted by zacharias
haha btw the Milan champs league final doesn't, doesn't count. They thought they'd won, got complacent and went to sleep. Freak game which a wise person wouldn't draw any conclusions from.
lol what
So you can't draw any conclusions from a game in which Gerrard, as captain of his club, inspired them to come back from three goals down against one of the best teams in the world?
right okay
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"He's the most complete midfielder in the world today"...Sorry, that's completely unproven at international level, as yet. Over the next month or so we'll see if that's close to being true.
Could you suggest another player who excels in so many areas of his game? One who can tackle, shoot, head, pass, run, dribble etc to as high a standard as Gerrard? There are better finishers, better passers for sure, but in one package? That's what we mean when we say he is the "complete midfielder".
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I'd say he'd make any teams lineup that plays similar to england. Brazil's an obvious example of a completely different style. Would he make their team?
Well, Brazil's manager has gone on record as saying that if he could pick any non-Brazilian for the national team, it would be Gerrard. You can draw your own conclusions from that, but I don't think you'd find too many who wouldn't pick a Gerrard ahead of a Gilberto or a Kleberson.
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Gerrards been great too, but in context it seems somewhat different (ie. Liverpool are not amongst the most successful clubs recently
Ahahaha, now I know this is a troll.
Liverpool not successful? This is their trophy haul over the last 5 seasons:
Inline Image:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/DannyClein/TLW/LFC_Millennium.jpgNow you can argue that the absence of the English FA Premier League championship is a big gap in the collection, but there ain't many more teams who have won as many trophies in recent years.
Paz on 31/5/2006 at 16:49
This is a highly bizarre discussion!
Just to pick up on one point; It's plainly obvious that it is HARDER to break into the Premiership than, say, the Argentinian league. The Prem is an importing league - along with Spain, probably *the* importing league at the moment. It's notoriously difficult for 'native' talent to break through, because clubs merrily buy players from all over the place. I believe this is almost entirely beneficial for the league itself, incidentally - though effects on the national team are probably open to more debate (hi Sean Wright-Phillips, hope you enjoy your dead career). Meanwhile, in South America it's not at all unusual to see 16-18 year olds thrown into the side to see what they can do (even then, only a few will make it to that level). There are also further complications here in the sense that various people usually have a vested interest in South American players and see them as a bit of a 'golden ticket' if they can be sold off to a high-bidding Premiership club - therefore it's beneficial to have them on show as early as possible.
Added to this is the already-mentioned aspect (oddly, by the same person who said 'lol everyone could have played in the Prem') that you could be dedicated as a dedicated McDedicator and not make it as a footballer. Just like every other area of life, it involves luck, skill and a hatful of other factors. You remember that guy at school who played out of his skin and made everyone else look stupid? He almost certainly didn't 'make it'. If he did, he was probably a reserve at Hartlepool for a couple of seasons and occasionally made it to the subs bench.
I think (unfortunately) that Monb is probably correct that the later stages of Champions League football are, technically, higher quality than certain aspects of International Competition. Luckily, tournaments like the World Cup retain the kind of interest, prestige and excitement that club competitions can hopefully never recreate. I say this, because the World Cup *must* always remain as the pinnacle of playing achievement - not money, not a European Superleague, none of that shit. I'm extremely wary of the day when club sides gather enough power to say "no, I don't believe we'll be letting you play in the World Cup - you might get injured and it'll affect our sponsorship revenue and profit margins next year when we play in the G18 MUTUAL DICKLICKING MEGAHYPERLEAGUE".
Finally, Robo-Crouch was pretty decent last night. I'm slowly coming around to the idea that he is a man of DESTINY. From tortuous emergence as a Kafkaesque figure of existential horror during the first half of the season, to reasonable footballer in the second ... now it is clear he MUST score a vital goal for England. Probably a crucial last minute one against Sweden, or something. IT IS WRITTEN IN THE STARS.
Some quality diving from England at times, too. Not that I have a problem with that at all, but I think the BBC should really pick a stance on it - either you criticise ALL diving or, like me, you accept it's part of the theatre. Massively annoying when you lose a goal due to it, but massively statisfying when the reverse occurs. Instead they were reaching near-ITV levels of hypocritical cuntery; and since ITV commentators make it basically impossible to ever support any team of an English nature, that's not a good sign.
SD on 31/5/2006 at 17:08
Quote Posted by Paz
Finally, Robo-Crouch was pretty decent last night. I'm slowly coming around to the idea that he is a man of DESTINY. From tortuous emergence as a Kafkaesque figure of existential horror during the first half of the season, to reasonable footballer in the second ... now it is clear he MUST score a vital goal for England. Probably a crucial last minute one against Sweden, or something. IT IS WRITTEN IN THE STARS.
I have long said that Crouch is an excellent footballer (yes haytaz, even (
http://forum.liverpoolway.co.uk/showpost.php?p=214734&postcount=42) before he joined Liverpool) and it seems that most people are FINALLY able to see past his gigantic physique and appreciate the fact.
The boy Crouch is a force of nature and I think we will be seeing the ROBOKOP celebration a few more times this summer.
Shevers on 31/5/2006 at 17:11
Except that he's practically incapable of heading the ball. He manages to score by walking into the ball, sure, but he's got a pretty awful technique with his head. He is pretty good with his feet, but I don't believe he's a good enough player for the World Cup. I just can't call him any more than average, no matter what odd goals he scores for omg-england.
SD on 31/5/2006 at 17:24
Quote Posted by Shevers
Except that he's practically incapable of heading the ball.
Something he has in common with Thierry Henry then. But of course, if we were discussing Henry, his heading ability doesn't come into it; we'd be talking about his mesmerising skill on the ball or his ability to get past defenders or his prolific goalscoring.
So why is it that when the topic comes on to Peter Crouch, people can't help themselves focusing on the negatives in his game? How about focusing on the fact that he holds the ball up better than any other player England have, or his excellent technique, or the fact that he rarely wastes possession, or his cute flicks and backheels, or even the fact that his sheer physical presence unsettles defenders like only a 6 foot 7 giant can?
Eriksson calls him a "special player" and he's dead right. He's a unique weapon that England are blessed with.
Paz on 31/5/2006 at 18:27
Well, I'm sticking with "sometimes pretty decent".
I've seen him play absolute bobbins a fair amount too (not that any players are particularly immune to this).
I don't have a problem with him being in the squad as such, but the current England forward selection is pretty odd:
~ A crocked Mr Potato Head (he's not going to be fit, stop being silly)
~ Michael Owen (fairly obviously in need of a few more games)
~ A child who is not Pelé
~ Peter Crouch (supposedly a "Plan B"/option from the bench - but it looks like he might be called upon to lead the line, but that doesn't matter because DESTINY!)
Rooney will be out after his next scan, so I suppose that means a call up for .. Defoe? I rate him pretty highly, but Tottenham have dicked around with forward selections so much this season I doubt his confidence is too high. Dean Ashton would be nice. Maybe Marcus Bent.
Shevers on 31/5/2006 at 18:36
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Something he has in common with Thierry Henry then. But of course, if we were discussing Henry, his heading ability doesn't come into it; we'd be talking about his mesmerising skill on the ball or his ability to get past defenders or his prolific goalscoring.
When you're Crouch's size and you can't head a ball at all well, then it's considered a wasted oppertunity. Balls get played high and he can't take them. The rest of his game would get praised more if it was as exceptional as, say, Henry's. But it's not, he has some talents but is basically a mid-table player.
He's at a level a little below Liverpool as far as I'm concerned, and at the World Cup he is not going to be causing the type of problems for the defenders that more talented players are.
