So... no World Cup thread yet? (also featuring TTLG fantasy world cup game)

Shevers on 17/6/2006 at 09:44

Fills me with hope for the Argentina vs. Holland game - lots of football and an Argentina win seems the likely result.

I don't even know who plays today yet, so I'd better get off to check :erm:

Paz on 17/6/2006 at 13:07

I'm a little disappointed that Arg and Ned only have "who wins the group?" to play for now - I think that might result in more cautious antics. Hopefully not though.

Regarding flair teams who've come a cropper, it surely speaks volumes that the teams mentioned - Hungary '58, Holland '74, Brazil '82 are generally the ones remembered, despite their ultimate failure. A fair few people probably couldn't tell you who won in '74, but they'll know what 'total football' means. Tactical innovators and sides which go against the contemporary grain really stand out with me.

The current Argentina are quite retro. They're attempting to put the bed the recent thinking that most goals are scored either from set-pieces or in 'transitions' (there's some rubbish about a goal being statistically less likely after a certain number of passes, or something). That's football for maths geeks. As I say, this Argentina side are retro - they play through the midfield with obsessive possession football. With Riquelme they have one of a dying breed of footballers who can control the tempo of a game and (if he's allowed to) basically dictate the whole play. It's the kind of thing Brazil *used* to do, but gradually gave up on following their failure in 1982. I really, REALLY want them to do well, if only that it will encourage other managers to look at that style of play and go "ooh, maybe we can give that a go".

There's been a fair amount of criticism toward Eriksson in this thread already. Some of which is deserved and some not so much. It's hardly Eriksson's fault that David Beckham was putting every single one of his free kicks into the wall against T&T (the single pass he managed to get right resulted in the first goal). It's not his fault that this country considers Rio Ferdinand to be some kind of ball playing defender, just because he wanders forward a few steps before punting aimlessly upfield. It would be churlish to hold the Swedish gent to account for Joe Cole's complete inability to develop the use of his less favoured foot. Or, indeed, for the hatful of missed chances.

It's staggering that England still cannot produce a full side of players who are properly comfortable on the ball and who can actually use both feet when necessary. That should be a DEFAULT REQUIREMENT for a national side with designs on winning anything.

SD on 17/6/2006 at 13:42

Quote Posted by Paz

There's been a fair amount of criticism toward Eriksson in this thread already. Some of which is deserved and some not so much.

I see your point Paz, but Eriksson is ultimately responsible for his team selection, and he keeps picking Beckham, the Coles and Ferdinand whether they play well or not. I mean, anyone who thinks that Rio Ferdinand has been a better centre-half than Jamie Carragher over these past two seasons needs their head testing, but Rio still gets the nod because he cost £30m, and he looked world-class in 2003, and because Eriksson panders to the southern-based media who have built Rio up to be this untouchable ball-playing defender.

I'd like to hope his successor McClaren will be picking his teams on ability and not reputation, but I think it'll just be more of the same :erg:.

Paz on 17/6/2006 at 13:57

That is definitely a problem. He picks a kind of Fantasy Football side, whereby "cor great we have Lampard and Gerrard in midfield that'll be AWESOME" - except it doesn't quite work and he needs to realise *why* it doesn't work and take some action. Either by inventing a system which fits them both in (too late for that now, really) or by having the balls to drop the one who's off form (currently, Lampard). Inevitably there'll be injuries/suspensions, so the other guy will probably get games too. Or do a switch for the last twenty minutes if the starting guy has run himself into the ground.

I'd also rate a Terry-Carragher central pairing over a Terry-Ferdinand one, although given current circumstances I think he's right to play Carragher to cover Neville. The only other alternative would probably be Hargreaves (laffo). I'm not convinced there's any media influence in Ferdinand starting though - Sven doesn't exactly seem to take his cues from the papers; if he did, England would be playing a specialist holding midfielder by now.

There was a hint in the Guardian today that Eriksson is considering playing Beckham as a kind of attacking right-back, in order to fit Lennon into the side. If that's in any way accurate then that is precisely indicative of his wacky "how can I fit all the players I like into 11 spaces?" style. Lennon is on form, so he wants to play him ... but OH NO, he plays in the same position as Beckham - WHAT TO DO?! He can't move Beckham to central midfield, because that space is already OVERLY BLOATED so, hey, why not stick him at right-back?

It's mental.

D'Arcy on 17/6/2006 at 14:01

If by any chance we do get an England vs. Germany in the next round, I'm sure that Lahm would appreciate having Beckham playing as full-back ;)

D'Arcy on 17/6/2006 at 14:57

Well, it seems we're another team who can claim 'We played really bad, but have 6/6 points'. Figo and Deco provide a bit of that touch of class to our game that was forever lost with Rui Costa's international retirement. C.Ronaldo so far is a serious contender for the award of Flop of the Tournament :p

SD on 17/6/2006 at 15:43

I thought Portugal were okay, remember just like England vs T & T they were playing a really poor international side, and when you play those sides there's a tendency there for the more accomplished side to be brought down to that level.

Portugal will play better against better sides, of that you can have no doubt. Unfortunately, you will face either Argentina or Holland in the next stage, so even then it may not be enough ;).

Shevers on 17/6/2006 at 15:45

Meh. Portugal haven't been all that bad. A few special moments and an average two games isn't worth complaining too much about - their gap between their best and their current form hasn't been as great as England's. I'd maybe put them in the same boat as Brazil over their performances.

C. Ronaldo didn't have an awful game either, he just has some serious problems with crossing the ball :p He certainly wasn't as ridiculous as he was in the first game.

D'Arcy on 17/6/2006 at 16:04

He has serious problems passing the ball, and attempts to shoot at goal when crossing would be the best option. Plus, he gave away possession too many times.

I hope that we get Holland in the next round. For some strange and unexplained reason, the dutch can't deal with our style of play. I think that they've only managed to beat us once or twice in the whole history of games between the two teams.

Shevers on 17/6/2006 at 16:05

I remember Portugal vs. Holland in Euro04 - watching it in a bar, me sitting with a Portugal top and my sister there with a Holland one :p

Meanwhile, Ghana lead the Czechs after 5 minutes :eek: