So... no World Cup thread yet? (also featuring TTLG fantasy world cup game)

Myoldnamebroke on 16/6/2006 at 08:37

The trouble with Crouch is that he's yet to prove himself - Lampard and Owen are both clearly out of form but have demonstrated over the past x seasons that they're quality players. I happen to think Crouch is a lot better than people give him credit for, but still - he needs to do a bit more than he has done in order to convince people that he's something other than very ordinary when he's missing chances like he did in that match. He looks like he might be a decent support striker, but he doesn't carry any threat that will worry defences, and we can't (and shouldn't expect to) rely on him as our main forward.

Also, it wasn't great football yesterday, but it was really only shocking finishing that stopped it being 5 or 6 nil - we made a lot of chances, it's just we were massively incompetent at putting them away :D

edit for clarification - this wasn't a go at Crouch, it was at attempt to figure out while he comes in for more attacks than players who are playing perhaps worse than him at the moment.

Ajare on 16/6/2006 at 08:37

Give Crouch a break. I don't think anyone's expecting him to become a 'great'. England have never been blessed with a surfeit of good strikers, and we're in a particularly lean patch at the moment. Crouch will never be world class, but many people feel he's the best we've got at the moment, and his scoring record in the games he's played vindicates this. Anyway, all the best strikers scored more against the weaker teams, that seems pretty bleeding obvious. So let's wait until judging him further, eh?

SD on 16/6/2006 at 10:12

I don't really care what anyone on here thinks of Peter Crouch any more to be honest.

I will always trust the judgement of Rafael Benítez (1 European Cup, 1 UEFA Cup, 2 La Liga titles, 1 FA Cup) and Sven-Göran Eriksson (League titles in Italy, Portugal and Sweden, Cup titles in Italy and Sweden, a UEFA Cup and a Cup Winners' Cup) over a bunch of armchair pundits on an Internet forum.

Crouch does his job and he does it better than anyone, and people who know football recognise that.

zacharias on 16/6/2006 at 11:57

First you say he stifles Stevie G but then suddenly his footballing judgement is spot on about Crouch...?
I love how you turn it into an all or nothing internet imbeciles v Erikkson thing where suddenly if you don't rate Crouch you know nothing about football..

Also, kinda OT but look at Alex Ferguson, bags of trophies but i don't think anyone would say he hasn't made errors of judgement over the last few years.

SD on 16/6/2006 at 12:06

Quote Posted by zacharias

if you don't rate Crouch you know nothing about football

Sums it up entirely, for me.

(btw I have criticised Eriksson's tactics on numerous occasions, but he's a good judge of ability, and this is pretty much the best squad of players he could have picked)

Myoldnamebroke on 16/6/2006 at 12:38

Quote Posted by Strontium Dog

I have criticised Eriksson's tactics on numerous occasions

I think you should trust his judgement - he's won League titles in Italy, Portugal and Sweden, Cup titles in Italy and Sweden, a UEFA Cup and a Cup Winners' Cup and you're just an armchair pundit on the internet

SD on 16/6/2006 at 12:48

Quote Posted by Myoldnamebroke

International football is a different kettle of fish to club football. Club football you get to work with players on a daily basis, it's easier to communicate your tactical message to them, to get an idea of their personalities. International football you have your players maybe 4 weeks out of the year, so it's a lot more difficult.

So you can be a good manager at club level and a mediocre one at international level.

However, judgement of player ability is a constant - it is unaffected by the kind of team you are managing.

Capisce?

Myoldnamebroke on 16/6/2006 at 13:02

It was a cheap shot and a fairly obvious one - you don't really need to point out the distinction.

It's just massively convenient that the attributes that Sven has happen to be the ones that bring him into line with what you think, and when you disagree that's because he's only mediocre at international level. No-one would mind things like this - the archetypes of armchair punditry - if you weren't blasting people for disagreeing with you.

This over-exaggarated Liverpool stichk is getting old. Fine, you rate Crouch but someone else doesn't. Defend him in a more reasonable way - he had a shoddy game against T&T, but anyone can have a bad game and miss chances, look at Lampard; that he's being relied on to lead an attack and that's not really the role he's suited to, etc etc. Even bring in the fact that he's got the same gpg average as Stern John over 1/10th of the number of games played if you must. But don't say 'you've no credibility if you doubt Crouch'. It's the predictability of your bordering on self-righteous defenses of Liverpool players that winds everyone up and makes them want to lay into the players even more that makes these threads so annoying.

SD on 16/6/2006 at 13:24

Quote Posted by Myoldnamebroke

No-one would mind things like this - the archetypes of armchair punditry - if you weren't blasting people for disagreeing with you.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me if they can back it up with hard facts and evidence. Most of the criticism Crouch gets is just heightist nonsense though, and luckily for England we have a manager who can see past the fact that a player is ungainly and inelegant, and recognise what he can bring to a team.

Quote:

It's the predictability of your bordering on self-righteous defenses of Liverpool players that winds everyone up and makes them want to lay into the players even more that makes these threads so annoying.

Other than defending Crouch, would you care to provide some more examples?

Because what you are saying is cack and I think you know it. If you look back a bit in (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1460883#post1460883) this very thread, you might even find an instance of me criticising a Liverpool player.

Now, I can't help the fact that I support the most successful club in English football history, but that's quite some way from blind adulation for the players that play for them.

Myoldnamebroke on 16/6/2006 at 14:16

I wouldn't care to provide specific examples, really, because I don't want to trawl through the History of Football on TTLG. But it is the image you create, and that, unfortunately, is how you understand and make judgements of people - not on emperical evidence but on irritatingly vague and intangible things like feels and impressions. Things like ''Now, I can't help the fact that I support the most successful club in English football history" really don't help your case.

Ooh, I don't know. I just like reading about football and something about the footy threads on here just rubs me up the wrong way. It's probably hideously unfair on my part. Everyone just be more like Paz.