sNeaksieGarrett on 4/8/2011 at 22:20
I have to say, so what? Can't it be a nicely done linear game? I mean, I come at this from a different perspective than most, since I actually haven't played through the original games, only familiar with them. If we ignore that it's a sequel to the other games, it may be a good game in its own right, despite the fact that it's linear.
You also have to take into account that this is not done by the original developers and so it 's a bit unfair to expect it to be much like the original ones. However, I understand the feeling of wanting it to be like the originals, or it's "not deus ex." Same thing with thief 4, and to some degree I agree with that stance, but at some point you either have to take the "welp, oh well, it's not like the originals but I'll still play it" or you take the "screw this game" mentality.
Bakerman on 5/8/2011 at 03:51
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
Can't it be a nicely done linear game?
The problem is when people think it's not linear, or even praise it for such. Linear games aren't necessarily a problem, but when 'non-linear' starts to mean 'linear with a few small exceptions', then it's either a question of semantics or devolving standards.
d'Spair on 5/8/2011 at 10:50
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
I have to say, so what? Can't it be a nicely done linear game? I mean, I come at this from a different perspective than most, since I actually haven't played through the original games, only familiar with them. If we ignore that it's a sequel to the other games, it may be a good game in its own right, despite the fact that it's linear.
I never said I thought this was a bad game. DXHR is actually very very good, it's good on its own right. But as a Deus Ex game, sometimes it fails to tick some boxes that simply define what a Deus Ex game is, to me. Invisible War is flawed in many ways, but when it comes to fundamental gameplay mechanics and systems, it is very faithful to Deus Ex, while Human Revolution sometimes is not.
For instance, if you make a wonderful stealth game, set in a steampunk universe, with Garrett as a protagonist, but it is linear, non-emergent, and has no lighting based stealth, it won't be a 'modern' Thief 4. It will possibly be an awesome game, but not a Thief game, because I can't imagine Thief being not emergent.
What amazes me also is that when you take a look at Deus Ex 3 for instance, you really see that sometimes the developers seem not to properly get some of the fundamental mechanics and systems that define Deus Ex game. In the meanwhile, take a look at Dishonored, a game that is
inspired by Deus Ex, and it looks much more faithful to these fundamentals, than the actual Deus Ex
sequel (well, prequel for that matter).
froghawk on 5/8/2011 at 15:40
I think most people fail to acknowledge how linear the original deus ex was. It wasn't an open world romp - it was a set of consecutive levels that had a beginning and end. There were many ways to get through the levels, and there were a few hubs, but it was a linear game with a twist. DXHR is following in the same format, with slightly more linearity - but the DX series has never been truly nonlinear
Warren's Spectre on 8/8/2011 at 00:09
If you're going to be awkward then we can argue that everything has a beginning and end. No one ever tries to claim that the original Deus Ex was completely non-linear and I think you're the first to mention open world in the same sentence. It isn't a linear game with a 'twist' and the reasons why it isn't are old hat.
And you have the second thing backwards as well. DXHR isn't staying true to the format, it's going against the grain by creating a typical enough FPS with the most facile RPG and non-linear elements. Woah! An inventory? In my Splinter Cell Clone?!?
And all this bollocks about how this could be a great game on it's own right is just sickening. They choose to call it Deus Ex so they'd need to make it Deus Ex or funnily enough that's false advertising. I mean FFS there is no lean and everyone seems to be okay with this? Forcing a generic and not fun since we first seen it in Rainbow Six Vegas third person cover system on us is not staying true to Deus Ex particularly when you can't say it's a modernisation of the game mechanics. COD Black Ops and Medal Of Honor both have lean!
Matthew on 8/8/2011 at 08:45
Point of order - Rogue Trooper had third-person cover months before R6V and I am led to believe that Killzone had it too. And I like the system, so yaah boo difference of opinion shocker.
Dia on 9/8/2011 at 12:58
Last night I was watching Eureka & Warehouse 13 on SyFy and during a commercial break I caught the vid preview for DE: HR (first time I've seen it on TV). Short but sweet! Although it kind of makes the protagonist look rather demonic at the end. :weird: Getting a tad excited here.
Manwe on 9/8/2011 at 14:12
Quote Posted by Matthew
Point of order - Rogue Trooper had third-person cover months before R6V and I am led to believe that Killzone had it too. And I like the system, so yaah boo difference of opinion shocker.
Hmm Rogue Trooper is a third person game, so it makes sense for it to have a third person cover system. Now if it had a first person cover system, then you'd have a point. That would be hilarious by the way, first person cover system in a third person shooter. As for Killzone, the cover system is strictly first person, so again there's strictly no relation to R6V and DX HR.
R6V did in fact invent and popularize the whole "switching to 3rd person in a fps to look around corners cause leaning isn't practical on a gamepad" thing. And whether you like the system or not still makes it completely shitty when playing with a keyboard and mouse. Leaning and crouching will always give you more freedom and control over your character than a shitty contextual button.
Matthew on 9/8/2011 at 14:52
Quote Posted by Manwe
Hmm Rogue Trooper is a third person game, so it makes sense for it to have a third person cover system. Now if it had a first person cover system, then you'd have a point. That would be hilarious by the way, first person cover system in a third person shooter. As for Killzone, the cover system is strictly first person, so again there's strictly no relation to R6V and DX HR.
R6V did in fact invent and popularize the whole "switching to 3rd person in a fps to look around corners cause leaning isn't practical on a gamepad" thing. And whether you like the system or not still makes it completely shitty when playing with a keyboard and mouse. Leaning and crouching will always give you more freedom and control over your character than a shitty contextual button.
Fair enough re the provenance, but you saying it's 'shitty with keyboard and mouse' is what I'm primarily taking issue with. I for one don't think that lean and crouch gives you anywhere near the same contextual information that you would have in a real-world situation and so I'm more than happy with third-person views that, in my very personal opinion, give you more of the feedback that you would normally have, albeit not in the same manner as you would receive it in person.
Warren's Spectre on 9/8/2011 at 18:14
So you dislike the classic crouch and lean because it isn't realistic enough and your answer to that is to go balls to the wall in the opposite direction so we now have immersion and reality breaking zoom out and see things in the opposite direction to the way that I'm facing.
Again, I don't care what way Eidos Montreal have decided to butcher my favourite game as long as they would do me the courtesy of properly implementing a 'Give me Deus Ex' mode which would allow me to play the game without the new and poxy game mechanics. When these things are so easy to implement (lean in particular) then the choice should lye with us the players and not the dev.
I agree with Matthew that classic crouch and lean behind a wall doesn't feel as realistic as it should but it was a product of it's time. The new true successor to this proper FPS mechanic is Far Cry 3's FP sticky cover which allows you to move the gun up and over the cover in order to blind fire without the need to go into third person. If Eidos Montreal wanted to be hip and with the times why didn't they implement this?
