demagogue on 1/10/2008 at 05:03
I'm starting to get tired of talking heads giving me reductionary soundbites on this, and I'm not one to base an opinion on a $700 billion dollar decision on a soundbite, much less write Congressional rep's trying to twist arms on the specific wording of a bill ... But unfortunately I'm at the mercy of articles since I don't personally know any financial economists to explain it to me in detail, and I have enough experience reading legislation to know you can't just look at the black letters of the law or the bottom line by itself. You have to know the whole backstory, start to finish.
Muzman on 1/10/2008 at 05:14
To add to the comedy; since the bailout is so unpopular because people are suddenly against corporate welfare (or maybe its just the large conspicuous kind) and don't like 'their' money being used in this way, the public could, I dunno, own the banks after they give them all that money. This would be good for employment as spin doctors would need to work around the clock to find ways for it not to sound like some socialist thing, but a reaffirmation of the community spirit this great nation was founded upon or something. Hey hire me, I've got a knack for this stuff (or rather, I don't).
Thief13x on 1/10/2008 at 13:02
Quote Posted by Ko0K
Oh, okay... I'll write Nevada senators too, then, since I go to Vegas to game once in a while. Never mind that I'm not registered to vote there or anything.
How about the fact that I dump upwards of 30k into their economy per year and have lived here 10 months of the year since 05?
Look, does it really matter? I have a Florida address to put in the compulsory 'address' section, and have no need to mention Pennsylvania, I don't think it matters.
If you want to write them, go for it! it's better than doing nothing. Instead of worrying about me so much, why don't you write your senators?
SD on 1/10/2008 at 13:11
Quote Posted by theBlackman
An Economic Recovery Plan That Will Work
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend." how about spending that $85bn on some math teachers huh
Gambit on 1/10/2008 at 13:21
So the american goverment is making a HUGE intervention on economy, and plans more restrictions and rules for financial executives to prevent economy becoming a casino game.
Is this the end of the "free market" era ? Will goverment have some big control in the economy from now on ? How far would you like them to have control ? Being a banker´s actionist ?
Is this a proof that market cannot self-regulate itself ?
Well, I personally believe that it is, and that we´re seeing the collapse of free market. But I would also like to see the opinion from american TTLG´s who have a better look at the crisis from within.
fett on 1/10/2008 at 13:31
Quote Posted by demagogue
I'm starting to get tired of talking heads giving me reductionary soundbites on this, and I'm not one to base an opinion on a $700 billion dollar decision on a soundbite, much less write Congressional rep's trying to twist arms on the specific wording of a bill ... B
[election derail]
Exactly. I start to get VERY uneasy about Obama over the same thing. After the bailout failed, I watch a youtube vid of him assuring us that his plan will save the universe, flowers will bloom, and blow jobs will be free (or the economic equivalent thereof) - "go to obama.org/com/net to see my detailed plan."
So I go to the site and search for ten minutes and all I find is more soundbytes - "every American will receive $1000!" "I'm going to raise taxes on big oil and give the money to your chlidren!" "No more Adam Sandler movies!" etc. HOW. HOW. HOW.
HOW???I really want to vote for the guy but he seems to have a solution for everything - even something so complicated as this crisis, but either he's not articulating HOW or I'm too stupid to find WHERE he's articulated it.
I will not vote for McCain, but at the same time, it's a little more believable to watch him fumble around and suggest 'a few ideas' whereas Obama seems to already know how to fix things before they break. Since it's easier to come up with soundbytes than solutions, it just makes me nervous. Or is it just that he's really that smart? For that matter, is there any single person that could really come up with a viable solution here, or is all the political posturing just an extravagant way of telling us we're all fucked?
heywood on 1/10/2008 at 13:54
Quote Posted by Gambit
So the american goverment is making a HUGE intervention on economy, and plans more restrictions and rules for financial executives to prevent economy becoming a casino game.
The gamblers are still around chasing the next bubble. They've just moved from investment banks into hedge funds.
Quote:
Is this the end of the "free market" era ? Will goverment have some big control in the economy from now on ? How far would you like them to have control ? Being a banker´s actionist ?
Is this a proof that market cannot self-regulate itself ?
Well, I personally believe that it is, and that we´re seeing the collapse of free market. But I would also like to see the opinion from american TTLG´s who have a better look at the crisis from within.
The financial services industry proved it couldn't regulate itself back in the 1920s. And then it proved it again in the late 1980s with the savings and loan crash (which was also driven by a real estate bubble). And now it's happening for the 3rd time. I'm sure we'll increase regulation and oversight to some degree, just as we have before, but there will still be a market. And no matter what we do, there will be booms and crashes in the future. Even planned economies have them.
Also, there is no true free market in the US. Every market is regulated to some degree, even flea markets and farmers markets. We're always balancing market freedom & efficiency vs. safety, stability, and fairness. [EDIT: I should say "trying to balance" because we're good at it with some markets and not so good with others]
Rogue Keeper on 1/10/2008 at 14:17
I'm thinking of a new collectible card game :
Etatists vs. Free Marketeers : Eternal Struggle.
heywood on 1/10/2008 at 14:35
I just heard this morning that the Senate bundled the bailout bill with a tax break package to sweeten the deal for House Republicans. And they're going to go ahead with their vote tonight. Bastards.
Thief13x on 1/10/2008 at 14:53
I agree with whoever said this bill will eventually be passed in one form or the other. It's unforunate but I'm getting the impression that the government at this point in time couldn't care less about the people want, just about what they think is right and nothing else.
An article I read on CNN.com headlines today asks why moswt Americans don't want a bailout and they site the reason as Americans not understanding the situation well enough and needing more 'concrete' examples of what will happen without a bailout such as losing the ability to send their children to college or pay for their house.
