Gray on 25/1/2007 at 16:35
I can relate.
Insomnia has so far stolen about ten years of my life, the last six-or-so have been particularly tough, and still getting worse. I've done plenty of tests. All kinds of tests, for almost everything. Blood, organs, brainscans for tumors, ultrasounds for heart disorders, EKG... If you can spell it, I've probably done it. Most of them show up nothing. As it turns out, it's really hard to test for, and even really good sleep specialists using the latest machinery may have problems.
Example:
A couple of weeks ago, I went off to a hospital down south which has a wing devoted to sleep disorders. I went there for a four-night polysomnography, which is what I assume TNT is referring to: they glue 20-odd wires to your head and other parts of your body, and let you sleep with this gear to collect data. They may test for breathing problems, restless legs, sleepwalking, narcolepsy, etc. I've done these tests before, last time was two years ago at the same place, but since then my problems have gotten worse, so I was expecting more distinct results this time, which would hopefully make it easier to resolve the problem. Surprisingly, even though I feel much worse now than I did two years ago, I sleep a lot "better", according to the machines. My sleep cycles aren't
as screwed up anymore, and look almost normal. Granted, I still have abnormally long time before I fall asleep, but not many of the other problems I experience registered this time. I wake up less frequently, according to the machines.
Two different nights which I experienced as Very Bad (even by my standards) and Rather Good (again, by my standards, but Very Bad by anyone else's) and very different from each other, ended up looking pretty normal and quite similar on the machines. Now, this is when I'm on two different kinds of medication, so just maybe my sleep patterns
are a little bit better now, but why do I then feel worse? My brain is slower, my body is breaking down faster and I work even less well at doing pretty much anything than I did two years ago. I came there hoping for results, I left confused and quite disappointed. At first I even thought that they had gotten my results mixed up with any of the other patients (there were six of us), but asking around, I learned it wasn't so. At one point I
knew I was awake (because I checked the clock) was accurately registered.
Also, the feeling of not finding anything wrong with me, as I'm very much used to getting, is very unsatisfactory given how badly I function these days. (Which, of course, is the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1549195#post1549195)
real reason I visit TTLG so rarely these days, but most people who remember me here probably remember me for my insomnia and already know this. Most days I'm hardly literate from all the brain fog and it's very hard to type a clear sentence. I hope this all end up making some sense, because I've just used up all my brain power to type, so I can no longer spellcheck or check for coherence.)
But one bit of advice, TNT:
go easy on the alcohol. Sure, it makes things feel better for a while, and may even help you sleep if used modestly, but drink too much and you'll most definitely screw up your sleep even more. Also, it generally doesn't go well with most pills. And
also, and
trust me on this, it makes it
very likely you'll post something on the internet you later really wish you hadn't.
TheNightTerror on 25/1/2007 at 17:07
Just a quick note -- thank you for all the well-wishers, you made me feel quite a bit better. :) Just heading out the door now, we'll see how this goes. I miss my kitten and my fish already. :sweat: I'll get to replying to the posts specifically when I get back, hopefully after everything goes okay. :o
OnionBob on 25/1/2007 at 17:10
Have you guys considered that these problems may be psychosomatic rather than physical? This does not invalidate their pathology in any way, it just may be that CBT or other therapy may be more useful (if more long term and difficult) than wires and drugs.
Gray on 25/1/2007 at 17:13
Been fiddling with that for a couple of years now, nothing's worked so far.
OnionBob on 25/1/2007 at 17:20
Quote Posted by Gray
Been fiddling with that for a couple of years now, nothing's worked so far.
It does need a pretty big committment to work, but as long as you're considering it. B<
zombe on 25/1/2007 at 18:15
Quote Posted by Gray
Granted, I still have abnormally long time before I fall asleep, but not many of the other problems I experience registered this time. I wake up less frequently, according to the machines.
Umm... how long is an abnormaly long time to fall asleep?
If i'm tired and manage to clear my mind from thoughts - 0.5-1h for me. Often i don't manage to do that ... which gives me 5 outcomes:
1: sleep gets postponed until i'm REALY tired (2-4h) - that sometimes ends up as:
2: skip the night.
3: i notice the moment i fall asleep (sort of cool actualy) - and wake.
4: get traped in pseudo problem solving dream that "activates" my brain too much and not enough. leaving me to bounce between sleep and wake state. Hell i tell you.
5: get some sleep - and usualy dream something awesome :D ... wish i could draw.
I think i get enough of option 5, but ... maybe not?
TNT,Gray: what was the point that made you visit a doctor?
Oneiroscope on 25/1/2007 at 18:40
Good luck, TNT!
Gray on 25/1/2007 at 18:44
Quote Posted by zombe
Umm... how long is an abnormaly long time to fall asleep?
Typically, I take a sleeping pill (Zopiclon, for falling asleep) and a dose of liquid sleeping agent (Alimemazin, to make it easier to fall asleep again when I wake up, which I always do) at 23:00 and go to bed. From that point it takes
at least two hours, but more likely three, before I sleep. I then wake up several times, and on some nights it's impossible to fall asleep again and I'm awake for the rest of the night. Other nights I never fall asleep at all, until about 9:00 when I pass out from exhaustion.
Quote Posted by zombe
Gray: what was the point that made you visit a doctor?
When I was too tired to do my job. That was in 2000. I haven't worked a day since 2001. I'm seriously braindead on most days, and those of you who have met me in person probably noticed that. Now it's 2007, and I still haven't gotten the help I need, and I feel worse than ever. Physically and cognitively, that is. I've grown a lot stronger mentally, from trying to cope with these problems. I constantly have to invent new ways to go around my increasing inability to do things I could previously do effortlessly. For one thing, now I have to think really really carefully about what I type, to make sure it a) makes some sort of sense, and b) gets across the point I was trying to make, instead of the direct opposite (which I've been known to do a lot recently, due my my increasingly suckier English). Reading and writing in general is difficult now, even in my own language.
Example 3 above also happens to me rather a lot. On some nights, or especially mornings, I can have 20 short little dreams and actually remember them, and sometimes even, in the dream, realise it's a dream, and start to control it in the way I'd like it to go. Some of those times I just can't control it, but I'm still aware it's a dream. Sometimes I can intentionally pick up the next dream from where the last one left off, but this is tricky and often won't work. I rarely have nightmares, just either pretty wacky nonsensical dreams or super-believably-realistic ones.
Mortal Monkey on 25/1/2007 at 19:06
I'm no expert on the matter, and I'm sure Gray knows all about this (or at least knew at some point), but the first two stages of sleep are usually not recognized as sleep by the subject. So even when you think you've been lying awake all night, you probably slept quite a bit.
As for waking up after a few hours, that's quite natural. A sleep cycle is normally two hours long, at which point you wake up, find a more comfortable position and, gods be willing, enter the next cycle fairly quickly.
As for your results, Gray, if your daily sleep mimics the sleep you get at the clinic, the problem might lie in the quality and/or depth of your sleep. As an example of the opposite, Napoleon allegedly only required four hours of sleep every night to function normally.
Gray on 25/1/2007 at 19:09
Yeah that's pretty accurate.
Two years ago, I had about 15 minutes of deep sleep on a test night, but now I have 1.5 hours, which is a lot more normal, but I still feel exhausted when I wake up. Even more now than back then. For me, deep sleep alone cannot determine sleep quality.
And I'm not Napoleon. At least, I don't think so. Yet.
