Sulphur on 22/11/2011 at 20:20
@Koki: Oh, stop being a dingbat. It's an example of how broken mechanics can facilitate gaming the system almost by accident, which means it's not the greatest example of a well thought-out set of mechanics.
Quote Posted by wonderfield
The ability to exploit a singleplayer game isn't necessarily indicative of it being broken (or even flawed, strictly speaking). Sure, you can suck down a fortify intelligence potion, make another, suck that down, then repeat ad nauseam. Doing so drastically unbalances the game, as you'll end up with potions that have incredibly powerful effects and can be sold for thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Septims.
Does it break the game? The answer to that depends on the person playing it. Bethesda may not have intended for it to be able to work that way, but the process still respects the basic mechanics of the systems they implemented within the game. It's a singleplayer game, too, so there's nothing particularly harmful about exploiting it.
As above (minus the insult, that's just for Koki because the love for each other that flows out from the wellspring of our hearts can only be drawn with a pail made of dicks). You don't see this sort of thing happening in the majority of RPGs; or if they are, they're not as obvious. In most cases, a gamer who finds a way to game a system will game it to facilitate an easier experience.
If a developer wants people to play their game the way they more or less intended, they'd be a little less slapdash about the implementation of these mechanics, or it damages the internal logic (what there is of it, that is)/credibility of the game-world they've created. At the very least, it should be difficult for a player to stumble upon them by accident.
In general, I've never been a fan of Beth's gameplay systems for the Elder Scrolls series because every time they try to 'fix' or 'adapt' a gameplay mechanic for one reason, they break it for another. Case in point being their wonderful levelling system.
wonderfield on 22/11/2011 at 22:16
Quote Posted by Ulukai
How would you solve the level scaling problem without further adding to the complexity of the game balancing?
The solution could either be very simple or extremely complicated. The simple approach would work, though: keep using dynamically-generated enemies, but increase their numbers in dungeons as the character levels. Rather than forcing the player to a one-in-one fight against some random level 30 bandit with 700 health, have the player fight five or six level 5-ish bandits with 100 health or so a piece. The player experiences the true weight of his advancement while still feeling as though he's being challenged enough to make combat interesting. There are performance ramifications with having a lot of AI on-screen (and even off-screen), but Bethesda could have mitigated those concerns with various techniques.
Quote Posted by Sulphur
At the very least, it should be difficult for a player to stumble upon them by accident.
I would say that, as a general rule, most players probably don't stumble upon these kinds of things. How many people do you suspect genuinely discovered the fortify intelligence alchemy technique in Morrowind, as opposed to have simply heard about it from someone else?
Phatose on 23/11/2011 at 01:40
Given the Morrowind player base, I'd actually expect it to be very common. The gameplay as a whole is too disconnected from the player to really appeal much outside of number junkies.
PigLick on 23/11/2011 at 01:55
There should be no level scaling, it is how it is, and thats the way it stays for the whole game. So when you are level 40 you should be cutting through bandits caves and tombs like a hot knife through butter, as is befitting to your almost demi-god like status.
Koki on 23/11/2011 at 06:51
Quote Posted by PigLick
There should be no level scaling, it is how it is, and thats the way it stays for the whole game. So when you are level 40 you should be cutting through bandits caves and tombs like a hot knife through butter, as is befitting to your almost demi-god like status.
The benefit of level scaling that I'm only beginning to notice is that you always have a reason to explore/visit random dungeons. You don't have to worry that after navigating two-level cave all you find is 50 gold and a Petty Soul Gem.
Ostriig on 23/11/2011 at 10:00
Quote Posted by Koki
The benefit of level scaling that I'm only beginning to notice is that you always have a reason to explore/visit random dungeons. You don't have to worry that after navigating two-level cave all you find is 50 gold and a Petty Soul Gem.
The downside of that very same argument is that you're also not going to go through a dungeon, beat its end-boss, and then jump up and down when he randomly drops some marvellous piece of equipment fifteen levels over what you should be getting.
Quote Posted by wonderfield
The simple approach would work, though: keep using dynamically-generated enemies, but increase their numbers in dungeons as the character levels.
I think there's only so far you could take this before:
a) the dungeon hallways get cramped;
b) the player starts getting annoyed and bandits' outlandish reproductive abilities.
Anyway - and this refers to what PigLick said too - aside from the general purpose level ranges which are supposed to be in the world, I think I read on the official forums that most areas have a level lock enabled once you visit them. So, if you visit a dungeon when you're level 10 and then come back when you're level 30, the mobs in there should still be the same level as when you first went in. I haven't had a chance to put that to the test yet, since I haven't revisited pretty much any dungeon so far.
