Sin. What is it? - by Gray
Gray on 18/11/2019 at 00:11
Right, I should have realised before posting this thread it could descend into various religious arguing. That was not my intent. I'm just trying to understand things that I'm too unaware of.
As an atheist, the whole concept of sin eludes me. Original sin especially, that probably more than anything turned me atheist. Why should I feel guilty about something my parents did to bring me life? I've done nothing!
As I understand it, the whole concept is to control human behaviour, probably with good intentions, so that we can all function in society, and not be horrible to each other. Fine. I like that idea. But that's not necessarily how it seems to work. Some things I'm supposed to feel ashamed about and ask forgiveness for just seem ridiculous, but then again, I do not have the faith, so I probably will never understand why so-and-so could be important.
I believe you should generally be nice to people. This is not to make me worthy of going to heaven or avoid hell, I obviously believe in neither, but just to make life here on planet earth, the only life we have, a little bit easier. Altruistic actions is not something I do so I will be judged more gently at armageddon, it's just instinctive in me that if you behave appallingly, it will breed discontent around you, and at some point that might come back to bite you in the ass. It's not quite like karma, I don't believe in that either. I just think it's generally a bad idea to make the world shittier than it already is when it takes so little effort to not be a complete asshole. So I try to be nice. I sometimes fail, but I try. Maybe protestant behaviour has infiltrated my brain even though I do not actually believe.
Tocky on 18/11/2019 at 00:57
That's pretty much how I feel. Throw in that some folks NEED religion. The absolute worst who sinned the most and then turned around are the absolute worst at forgiveness and understanding. The hypocrites. But those are the ones who need it most. They don't have that deep gut instinct about what is wrong and right and how to control themselves. They at some point scared themselves with how badly they behaved and then went redline in the other direction, perhaps to make up for their behavior, and now anyone who is even a little lax is the devil. Those are also the ones most likely to backslide. They give themselves license they do not to others. Not to say that all of them are inherently and completely awful but they do need the stick of hell to be good.
Give me the good for the sake of it type. The ones who just want to do right regardless of reward or punishment. Those include though are not exclusive to atheists.
Renzatic on 18/11/2019 at 02:14
Quote Posted by Gray
As an atheist, the whole concept of sin eludes me. Original sin especially, that probably more than anything turned me atheist. Why should I feel guilty about something my parents did to bring me life? I've done nothing!
Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here, but Original Sin isn't something you're tainted with because you were conceived through what really hardcore, fundementalist Christians consider a filthy act. It's an inherent taint borne by Adam and Eve after they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and shared by all their descendants from there on. It's the very first sin mankind committed, hence the name, and used as proof that we're all flawed, and will sin again.
Gray on 18/11/2019 at 02:17
Yeah, see, it's stuff like that I do not understand. It makes no sense to me. That's why I'm asking more knowledgeable people to please explain it to me.
Renzatic on 18/11/2019 at 02:33
It's basically that we're a flawed creation (made by a God that is supposed to be perfect, and doesn't make mistakes), and that this First Big Mistake illustrates it. Cuz, hey, if the very first people can ignore God speaking directly to them, and get tempted away from Him by some snake in a tree, what hope do the rest of us have?
Compared to something like, say, the holy Trinity, it's pretty straightforward.
Gray on 18/11/2019 at 02:44
Hmm, yeah, the holy trinity takes some explaining. Bill Bailey gave it a good go, but it didn't make it much clearer. I think his point was that it's sort um.... a thing where, you see... there's the.. um, and the other one, and... well god in in there, of course, and then there's the son of god, who is also god, and then, that.. mmmmfmm..... right?
Renzatic on 18/11/2019 at 03:07
I guess you could say that God split His consciousness into two autonomous parts plus a vaguely defined third to play specific roles while interact with humanity, and the physical world, but they could all still be classified as the same all powerful being.
Gray on 18/11/2019 at 03:28
A valid point. I don't quite get it yet, perhaps I never will, but I do try.
I wrote about three different replies before I posted this, but they were all too dismissive and and antagonistic, and that is not where I want this thread to go. I don't want this to turn into atheists vs believers, so I deleted my stupid uninformed comments. The point is that I'm trying to understand. I really want to get inside the head of people who think differently to me, so I can maybe figure out how we can get along better. I sometimes am the arrogant asshole who thinks he knows better and will tell you where you're wrong, but I don't like me being that guy, I want to understand. This is why I'm interested in history and religion, trying to figure out why people think the way they do.
Renzatic on 18/11/2019 at 03:53
You won't hurt my feelings at all. At best, I'm apathetically agnostic over this whole religion thing. The subject is interesting as all get out though.
I think it's a giant crying shame that most everyone subscribes to the Hallmark Channel version of Christianity these days, seemingly unaware of just how freakishly weird and off kilter all the Abrahamic religions actually are. This whole idea of God being this kindly old bearded guy, attended to by these cute little chubby babies with wings doesn't exist ANYWHERE in the Bible. It's more like stuff you'd see on some random heavy metal album cover, drawn by some guy on mushrooms, which doesn't gel well with the Live Laugh Love contingent.
Gray on 18/11/2019 at 04:02
Well there's quite a lot in christianity that is not in the bible. Stuff that was decided at major conferences, like, say, the one 350-ish AD (I forget the year) when they decided to place the birth of Jesus close to the winter solstice to coincide with the pagan traditions they were trying to replace, thus creating christmas, given that there was almost nothing in the bible to say what time of year he was born, except there were hints it might be summer or spring. I forget the details. There's nothing about priests, bishops, popes, cathedrals. But again, I'm not trying to start some anti-christian bashing here, just pointing out that a lot of stuff in christianity is not actually in the bible.