ercles on 5/12/2008 at 01:42
Quote Posted by LittleFlower
Understood. But this was a nice opportunity to slam religion. I couldn't pass.
This, and what follows is just the kind of resonable approach that prevents christians from labelling the unbelievers as aggressive and mean spirited.
This seems like another case of people being unable to discriminate between religion, and "religious people". The reality is that I think you' struggle to find anyone who truly manages to follow the teaches of their religion. But there are plenty of nice, peaceful religious people from all religions that I have met. The fact is that humans are violent, regardless of your religious background. As I said previously, I believed religion is used as a tool to non-religious ends. I'm no history expert, but how many tyrants of the modern era (Hitler, Stalin, Husseing, Mugabe) are religious, or use religion to hide behind?
fett on 5/12/2008 at 02:41
Quote Posted by ercles
But there are plenty of nice, peaceful religious people from all religions that I have met. The fact is that humans are violent, regardless of your religious background.
This is the main thing that caused me to turn my back on religion in general. After 25 years of being involved in that culture in every imaginable way, I concluded that there's not a single difference between religious and non-religious people except for their perspective. They both deal with anger, grief, joy, disappointment, vices/sin, and relationships exactly the same way, and are driven by the same motivations to do the things they do. Religious people tend to frame it with scripture and talk of the Will of God and the Leading of the Holy Spirit (or whatever), while non-believers tend to frame things by logic, cause and effect, philosophy, and coincidence. In the end, it all turns out the same. If there had been on Roman Catholic Church, we'd still be able to point our fingers at something other than the Crusades and say, "See? People who ________________ ALWAYS persecute those who don't ____________ the way they do!!"
BEAR on 5/12/2008 at 04:09
I've come to realize that cultural values are separate from religious values. They intertwine in places but seem to remain independent. The values your parents and your culture impress on you are your values, regardless what religious teachings you have. Sometimes your values are taught in church, but they rarely deviate from the values of your culture as a whole.
It reminds me a lot of politics. Not everyone does this, but I'd say most people do to at least some degree. We are indoctrinated early by our parents world views, politics and values (which makes sense really). Later in life, some people change their views, but most just expand them and find new justifications for them.
Its just another part of the my realization that nobody anywhere is significantly different than anyone else. Nobody knows what the fuck is going on and they never will. On one hand this gives me very little hope for humans advancing as a species, but on the other hand I don't have to stress out trying to understand the disparities between everything because it doesn't really matter.
fett on 5/12/2008 at 04:14
Nihilism ftw!
cue shitty Nick Cave song
aguywhoplaysthief on 5/12/2008 at 04:37
I miss the old fett. This is the most boring religious thread in the history of these forums. Things were much more entertaining when you were taking on all of Finnish TTLG single-handedly.
:(
BEAR on 5/12/2008 at 06:51
Quote Posted by fett
Nihilism ftw!
cue shitty Nick Cave song Haha. Hey, nothing is still something! Seriously though, I don't think I make my points very clearly at all, I really should stop (or get better).
I never knew I was a nihilist, but now that you mention it I guess maybe I am. I've never actually looked up the definition before now. Too bad its already a cliche. Man, a cliche and I didn't even know it. So much for my own objectivity I guess. I didn't even know who Nick Cave was (though I just had a listen, cant say I care for it much, impressive mullet though!), man I'm really terrible at this.
Andarthiel on 5/12/2008 at 07:33
Quote Posted by LittleFlower
That would have been nice. But in fact, Christianity usually says: "We're right, you're wrong, and if you don't agree, we'll kill you".
It started with the Crusades. We had the Inquisition. We had religious wars in europe. We've wiped out zillions of people during our "missions". We've done the same thing in our colonies. Now we have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Christianity has always been very aggressive against anyone who is not Christian. In fact, different streams inside Christianity have fought each other till the death.
Christianity is the brood of the devil.
I agree but not just Christianity, many modern mainstream religions like Islam, Judaism also tend to start conflicts(Take the Israel-Palestine war for example). It's their intolerance and prejudice that annoys and angers me, before Jesus(if he existed that is) everyone lived in relative harmony religion-wise and nobody really went about preaching and saying "Your religion is wrong you must die".
That's why I don't want to live in the US, religion would get shoved into my face 24 hours. Secular countries are the way to go, people are free to believe in whatever they want.:thumb:
Agnosticism/Atheism FTW:D
@fett:hehe:laff: It would be awesome if you would make a Nihilism club on here, I wonder what the discussions will be about.
ercles on 5/12/2008 at 09:07
Quote Posted by Andarthiel
Secular countries are the way to go, people are free to believe in whatever they want.:thumb:
I'm sorry but as a fellow Aussie I have to say we are very far from being either a secular country or one where you are free to believe whatever you want. Religious movements still play a strong part in the lives of our most senior politicians. Look at the way that Muslims are being dealt with in the media currently. Although we certainly don't wear our religious prejudices on our sleeves, a la the bible belt, there is certainly a strong undercurrent of racism and mistrust towards muslims (specifically the lebanese) in Australia.
Nicker on 5/12/2008 at 09:28
Quote Posted by aguywhoplaysthief
I miss the old fett. This is the most boring religious thread in the history of these forums. Things were much more entertaining when you were taking on all of Finnish TTLG single-handedly.
He came over to the Dark Side. Don't mess it up, OK.
Gryzemuis on 5/12/2008 at 10:45
Quote Posted by Andarthiel
That's why I don't want to live in the US, religion would get shoved into my face 24 hours.
Religion is important in US politics. But you don't get religion shoved in your face in your daily life in the US. Maybe in the bible belt, I don't know. I've spent about 18 months total of my life in the US. Mostly in California, Silicon Valley. Religion was just as (in)visible in daily life as it is back home. What irritated me much more was the consumerism being shoved in your face 24/7. There was no escape to that.
