fett on 3/12/2008 at 23:34
The whole idea of swearing not to lie is a bit ass anyway isn't it? I mean, if I'm a liar, I'll lie no matter what I swear on. Unless I swear on a copy of The Hogfather or something.
rachel on 3/12/2008 at 23:47
I know what they swear to do, my question was more like, if they swear that on something in which they don't believe, what is that oath worth? I mean, for me for example, swearing on the Bible wouldn't mean anything, even though I can see the symbolic value of the act to others.
In a practical sense, it doesn't necessarily mean I would lie, obviously, since I know the consequences for doing so would be my ass ending up in prison, but that's just being realistic about it. I would not feel morally compelled not to lie, as opposed to swearing on my honor or some such.
In any case, this is answered, there are alternatives. :)
Starrfall on 3/12/2008 at 23:48
Don't be silly Fett no one who ever swears to their god lies!
But yeah, that's why there are options - the idea is that you swear on something that is important to you. It's all just symbolic (and in court, marks the time when you can start being liable for your lies, even if your oath was a lie to begin with).
fett on 3/12/2008 at 23:54
raph has honor? :eek:
rachel on 3/12/2008 at 23:57
sshhh don't go tell everyone now :erm:
jtr7 on 4/12/2008 at 00:01
Also, if the oath is sworn to an entity that the oath-taker does not believe in, the very oath is a lie, even if they honestly intend to fulfill the rest of the oath to the best of their ability.
rachel on 4/12/2008 at 00:10
Well technically using the Bible as example, it's an actual physical book, so swearing on it is not a lie per se, since the book is there, but the oath has no value.
Now I don't know about the "So help me God" part however. You may have a point.
Starrfall on 4/12/2008 at 00:27
Here's the presidential oath of office, by the way. Note the lack of any religious overtones (although presidents usually add "so help me god" on their own, and I expect Obama will do the same)
Quote Posted by Article 2 of the United States Constitution
Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
heywood on 4/12/2008 at 00:52
IIRC, Teddy Roosevelt didn't take the oath of office on a Bible. And there's probably others.
While some states still have a formal oath that refers to God, it is never required in court. Even if you go way back to the early days of British rule in the American colonies, an oath was not required. That's because some Christian denominations refused to swear to each other's God. So there is a 300 year old precedent for making affirmations in US courts in lieu of oaths.
And I've never even heard of someone swearing on a Bible in court. Usually you just raise your right hand and speak it. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there's a podunk Southern judge somewhere who still uses a Bible by default.
