Thirith on 16/12/2008 at 16:50
Fett - if it's not too personal a question, how well did your Christian friends accept your move away from religion and from the Church?
About the national differences: in Switzerland, you generally get the fundamentalist crazies as well as the converts to Christianity in the free churches. They're the ones who have fighting homosexuality and Harry Potter high on their list of priorities. The established churches - Catholic, Protestant - are a lot more critical of organised religion, ironically. I remember a couple of years ago when the Pope visited Bern; the Catholic Church was most vocal with criticism of Rome, the Pope etc. The Protestant church I used to go to every now and then a couple of years ago took a largely intellectual theological approach to the Bible, which meant that the sermons were fairly interesting (if you're into that sort of thing) lectures about the historical background and ethical issues of bible passages, sometimes suggesting fairly intelligent readings that were quite different from what you might expect. Both the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church in Switzerland were fairly comfortable with doubt and disagreement.
But the big churches are the ones who lose members (perhaps because for most people doubt and faith are antithetical) whereas the free churches would get more and more. I guess absolute certainty, however fanatical, however idiotic, is more attractive than lack of certainty and the ongoing search for meaning.
RavynousHunter on 16/12/2008 at 16:59
Only to some. I, for one, like the search for meaning, its an excellent intellectual experience to just hunker down and think about what your purpose in this flying dirtball full of psychotic apes is. To me, the search is far more enriching, and interesting, than the answer.
Kolya on 16/12/2008 at 17:24
I also have a personal question: I don't believe in God nor christian religion but I just bought a fabulous christmas tree for our flat share. Does that make me a hypocrite? It's one of those that don't lose their needles and I'm looking forward to decorate it tonight. The cat is joyous too although I'm pretty sure she accepts no other deities but herself.
fett on 16/12/2008 at 18:45
Quote Posted by Thirith
Fett - if it's not too personal a question, how well did your Christian friends accept your move away from religion and from the Church?
It really depended on their own depth of commitment. The ones with whom I've 'been through the fires' with understood the least - how could someone believe something enough to die for it, and then just turn around and walk off? Of course, I internalized my doubts for many years, so to them it seemed like a very abrupt about-face. The ones who knew me the least just shrugged their shoulders and didn't ask many questions. They're actually more disturbed that I'm not going to church, rather than the fact that I've renounced my faith. :confused:
Ultimately, no matter how much I try to explain what has happened, they are collectively convinced that this is just a phase, or that I'm burnt out and need to recuperate, or that despite my ambivalence, this is 'god's will' for me right now and he will eventually bring me back to the place I was before. For them to legitimize my thoughts and actions at this point is to threaten their own belief system, which they are unwilling to do (and I can understand why - the transition was/is a nightmare). My parents and in-laws still don't know and that's the hardest part because my parents used to go to my church (though are not very fanatical at all), and my in-laws are very hardcore - they would lay awake at night weeping if they knew. For them, this is heaven and hell, life and death stuff. My only solution to this predicament right now is to drink heavily. :p
Kolya - I think as long as you have sex* under the tree, you're fine.
*Not with your cat.
Kolya on 16/12/2008 at 21:20
If she asks any questions I'll say a former reverend told me to do that.
Buying a fir that doesn't needle might really pay off now. :D
paloalto90 on 17/12/2008 at 20:58
Quote:
Has God every *really* spoken to me, or guided me, either through scripture or the 'conviction' and intuition of the holy spirit...ever?"
Have you ever had what you would call an inspiration about someone or something that wasn't part of your knowledge base or a hunch?
It sounds to me like no matter what form the communication would take you would interpret it as coming from you.In my experience the Hollywood special effects God appearance hardly ever happens.In fact the voice of guidance I get is hardly distingquishable from regular mental chatter except when I meditate or am extemely lucid.I will get an aha moment.Of course if your an atheist you would have to say this comes from me.
As part of my spiritual practice I say what are called decrees which is prayers said out loud in rhythm using visualization of certain colors.One of the colors is violet to purple which I picture surrounding me.
While going to my local Jamba juice I saw a guy I hadn't seen before.We had just a general conversation.I come back two weeks later and he comes up to me and said that he had a dream that he and his friend were chasing me and I wrapped myself in purple gauze to protect myself.I hadn't said a word about my practice.
That is just too much of a coincidence for me to blow off or to not be an affirmation for me.
I have also felt the pain of seperation from God.
pdenton on 17/12/2008 at 21:12
I go to school in the Bible belt. I actually believe there are people here who are more stupid here because they've been raised Christian.
I'm talking home schooled, never left the state, never read a book that didn't come from the Christian store, stupid. It's not until they get to college and they need to play "catch up" with the rest of us that they come into their own, sometimes even turning their back on their faith, which is great.
And, all of the homeless here are Jesus freaks. Why after losing everything, especially to like METH, you would continue to put your faith in the space ghost makes no sense to me, these people are truly delusional.
Don't you think in another 1,000 years we'll look back on Christianity and the other big two and laugh like when you look at the Greeks who thought it was the Gods creating thunder? :devil:
Gryzemuis on 17/12/2008 at 21:20
Quote Posted by pdenton
Don't you think in another 1,000 years we'll look back on Christianity and the other big two and laugh like when you look at the Greeks who thought it was the Gods creating thunder? :devil:
A thousand years ? Why wait so long ? I already look at Christianity and see it the same way I see old Greek mythology. And I'm not the only one.
pdenton on 17/12/2008 at 21:31
Hey I'm with ya, I wish more people were.
Angel Dust on 18/12/2008 at 00:07
Quote Posted by pdenton
And, all of the homeless here are Jesus freaks. Why after losing everything, especially to like METH, you would continue to put your faith in the space ghost makes no sense to me, these people are truly delusional.
Probably because when some people hit rock bottom they find the idea of God comforting and I think it can give them the strength and self-belief to improve their situation. Strength that was always there of course but some people need a trigger to awaken this sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I am a confirmed atheist, but that doesn't stop me from empathising and understanding why it works for someone else.
