Queue on 2/12/2008 at 17:42
You know all of those shitty church signs that are usually so amusing (i.e. "Don't be so open minded your brain falls out"--even though they spelt "your" as "you're", making it even better), well this is what I drove past today:
[CENTER]"We must pray that our new leaders hold dear that which this country was founded in the name of Christ."[/CENTER]
What do they mean by that? I thought it was religious freedom and equality for all men (we now include women, too--progress!).
I'm just curious, being a complete heathen, what the religious folks really think the country was founded upon. As far as I know it wasn't an endorsement of any particular religious thought.
P.S. I'm really, honestly, not trying to start a fight. I'm seriously curious for research purposes, for a book.
fett on 2/12/2008 at 18:10
I can't give you any sources off the top of my head, or tell you what the average church going American thinks (because most of them don't), but the 'authorities' within the church believe that all the founding fathers were born-again Christians who wrote the Constitution with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (though they wouldn't elevate it to the same level as scripture). It follows that atheists shouldn't be allowed in government, or that any law should be passed that violates the will of God for man (i.e. legal abortion, gay marriage, funding for art deemed 'sinful', evolution education, etc.). The general opinion is that if we could 'get back' to the principles held by our forefathers, all would be right with America.
I guess for research I'd recommend watching a few episodes of Pat Robertson's 700 Club since he's a Reconstructionist and believes that America must be restored to its Christian roots before Messiah will return - this change obviously begins in government. Dobson and his ilk or more short-sighted and driven more by morality and social issues. Robertson is probably the biggest mouth in the Reconstructionist movement of the late 80's. He's cooled his heels quite a bit since then, but you'll get the jist if you watch for a few hours. Also check out Jack Van Impe, and 70's era Tim LaHaye literature for some of this.
Queue on 2/12/2008 at 18:14
I'm beginning to wonder if I can actually stomach doing this...
BEAR on 2/12/2008 at 18:16
A lot of it is ignorance. They think that the countries founding had more to do with Christianity than it was. They think that "under god" was always in the pledge of allegiance. They think all the founding fathers were devout Christians.
I don't think it is malicious in nature, but misguided surely. Separation of church and state however was much more important and older than most of the proof offered that this is a christian nation.
Queue on 2/12/2008 at 18:24
I've run into quite a bit of what I'd call "disheartening ignorance." But, sometimes I wonder if it's not simply ignorance, but a desire to not become informed: like arguing with an overly zealous friend over the motto "In God We Trust". He truly didn't believe that it wasn't the official motto for coins until 1956--that the phrase had always been on the money.
It's little bits of history that are forgotten, or ignored, that I find fascinating when trying to have a serious discussion about religion. I wonder if it's because people want to believe so badly in an idea that they tend to over-look truths.
Ulukai on 2/12/2008 at 18:53
Quote Posted by Queue
What do they mean by that?
I think it means, "We're cocks!", but then I have an extremely short patience threshold for religion (big gangs of people arguing over who has the best sky worshipping regime)
Argh, so out of here.
fett on 2/12/2008 at 19:42
Actually, you're not far off. Most those signs say, "We're right, you're wrong, if you don't agree, fuck off' when you boil them down.
Gryzemuis on 2/12/2008 at 20:13
Quote Posted by fett
Actually, you're not far off. Most those signs say, "We're right, you're wrong, if you don't agree, fuck off' when you boil them down.
That would have been nice. But in fact, Christianity usually says: "We're right, you're wrong, and if you don't agree, we'll kill you".
It started with the Crusades. We had the Inquisition. We had religious wars in europe. We've wiped out zillions of people during our "missions". We've done the same thing in our colonies. Now we have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Christianity has always been very aggressive against anyone who is not Christian. In fact, different streams inside Christianity have fought each other till the death.
Christianity is the brood of the devil.
rachel on 2/12/2008 at 20:16
For the sake of fairness, let's point out that Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on violence, it shares this trait with many other <s>superstitions</s>religions.
BEAR on 2/12/2008 at 20:56
Yes, what raph said. Lets not get too full of shit by just getting down on Christianity. Christianity is just one of the many examples of how the religious system enables us to believe irrational things that we would otherwise reject, and act irrationally on those beliefs. I believe this to be a physical shortcoming of humans that we would be better off without, but its not just Christianity and its not just Christians. They just happen to be a big target (lol americans are fat)
