Siding with the Templars

Pyrian on 6/7/2006 at 20:37

Cool, an actual Nazi troll! That's new and different. :joke: :laff:

emg_nerd on 6/7/2006 at 21:01

Quote Posted by Dr. Dumb_lunatic

Um...This part:

Um. Erm. Umm. Errm. Yeah. Umm errr.... errmmm. um.

What part? I said I don't hate anyone. A liar doesn't have to be a liar. But if they choose to be, does that mean I have to put up with it?

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Oh god, this is too easy.

It feels good to pretend to be something you're not, doesn't it?

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Good lord. I certainly believe fruitflies are capable of more coherent speech than you, anyway. While brain mass clearly matters, it is far from the sole determinant of intelligence...unless you have proof that, say, sperm whales are Uber Uber uber intelligent. Also your post seems to be indicating that you're a cro-magnon. Are you? That would, I admit, theoretically allow you to judge cro-magnon intelligence quite well, but if this is the case, I think you've already adequately demonstrated that cro-magnon intelligence is..lacking.

You are such a fucking hypocrite.

Where did I say I was "cro-magnon"? Do you have any idea how incoherent and irrelevant your bitching is?

First you say that brain size does matter - alot. But then you put words in my mouth, pathetically dependant on me playing along with the "sperm whale" rhetoric to weaken my argument.

So you obviously admit that there is something that having a high amount of neurons has to do with intelligence, yet you still attempted to insult my intelligence after I pointed out that brain size does matter.

Sperm whales aren't humanly intelligent because they're... .whales. Their bodies are also much larger than our own, so of course it's not difficult to understand why their brains are larger as well. The key difference is frontal lobe mass. While whales are highly intelligent, they have much less frontal lobe mass than humans. Some whales are probably comparable to neanderthal in terms of mental development.

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Hmmm...it's more the way you present them:

Wait, how is it possible to show facts, but do it in such a way that those facts are debunked/meaningless? Explain that to me.

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Now this reads as "something I once read, I think it was in my dad's car, or maybe a doctors office, or something, I can't quite remember, but basically some stuff about IQs and OH WAIT I REMEMBER that the average is supposed to be 100! And anyway, some stuff about averages but almost everyone is stupid and if you look at the data the right way all the jews are stupid".

My father is a social scientist, cultural researcher, historian AND a philosopher? Wow. I didn't know that.

emg_nerd on 6/7/2006 at 21:02

Quote Posted by Pyrian

Cool, an actual Nazi troll! That's new and different. :joke: :laff:

Ok, how is being a National Socialist bad? Please explain that to me.

TheGreatGodPan on 6/7/2006 at 22:05

National socialism is bad because it worked out horribly. Socialism in general is bad as far as I'm concerned, but that version is especially awful, ranking up there with communism.

That stuff about how everything was wonderful until the war (and don't try to pretend that nazi ideology had nothing to do with war) is essentially just propaganda from the regime. For a while there were economists who kept trumpeting about how the Soviet economy was much more efficient than ours and would overtake it any second. Then it collapsed and we got a look at the figures the government was spouting and realized they were full of shit. Germany was the same way. One of the Germans who got out to tell the truth explained that what they actually had was the (http://www.mises.org/story/1935) vampire (http://www.mises.org/story/1935) economy. That's because (http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=138) the "prosperity" of war, mobilization and collectivization is like the "prosperity" of an earthquake or plague. I'll admit that at the time Mussolini's "make the trains run on time through totalitarianism" were somewhat in vogue, even in what was called the "free world", and both England and the United States had problems, but it was through (http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2006/01/confession_of_a.html) rejecting the ideas of the Nazis that West Germany was able to surge ahead in the post-war years.

Humans have been getting more intelligent, on average, for some time now. It called the Flynn Effect. It seems to have started to slow down recently in Denmark. Does it seem odd to you that humanity made virtually no progress for so long, but was able to go from Kitty Hawk to the moon in a few generations? Does it seem odd to you that males and females have significantly different average brain volumes, but insignificant differences in average IQ, even while brain volume is positively correlated with IQ within each gender? Or that these "superior" (you might find (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/production/files/murray0905.html) this piece on trying to apply a word like that to groups of humans interesting) cro-magnons weren't able to outwit all us inferior mud-people who displaced them? Or how people who can't measure up to the cro-magnons came up with general relativity and quantum mechanics? You are looking back nostalgically to a past that left us no written record or testament to its greatness (although you'll probably shout "conspiracy!" here because your view can't survive evidence), and ignoring all the great things that surround you (like the internet which we are using to communicate over a possibly vast distance almost instantaneously).

I don't really expect that you'll find what I say persuasive, because you don't seem to be willing to accept anything as persuasive (it's all "Jewish science"!). Nevertheless, it felt good venting through my computer for a while.

emg_nerd on 7/7/2006 at 00:05

You're a god damn fucking liar. National Socialism was not communism. It worked splendidly well before russia and england murdered the heart of it in dresden. Would you like to see pictures and documents proving this?

Communism = everyone is enslaved. There is no individual progress, only economic, driven by a select group of people. Watch the movie equilibrium, or 1984 to get an idea of what communism is like. It goes against human nature.

Communism = extreme left.

Nationalism = extreme right.

National Socialism = middle ground.

Understand now?

----

you're talking in terms of technology not intelligence.

Cro-magnon had everything we have today, thousands of years before anybody claimed the name "white".

You want a cro-magnon invention? How about the sunken city of atlantis? They wore the first woven clothes, some 25-30,000 years ago. They built houses from wood and stone, they were the agriculturalists and they basically already invented everything western civilization has to offer, much like the ancient steam ships from the greeks, and the roman emperor caligula's ball-in-socket.

I'm not the one ignoring the facts.

You're lucky you have the luxury of living in america and being educated about things you couldn't have possibly thought up on your own. I don't know why it is so difficult for you to understand that if it weren't for cro-magnons and other men better much smarter you, you'd have nothing. Being able to recite what you're taught isn't genius, it's mimicry.

History is history. I don't care if you don't like something about it, you can't change what happened.

Cro-magnons were superior to modern man. End of discussion.

AxTng1 on 7/7/2006 at 01:58

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

How about the sunken city of atlantis? They wore the first woven clothes, some 25-30,000 years ago. They built houses from wood and stone, they were the agriculturalists and they basically already invented everything western civilization has to offer, much like the ancient steam ships from the greeks, and the roman emperor caligula's ball-in-socket.

I'm not the one ignoring the facts.

OK, who's getting busy with the alt-nick?
Doesn't this belong in CommChat now anyway, where it can get the attention it deserves? :ebil:

Rogue Keeper on 7/7/2006 at 08:41

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

My point is that patriotism is selfish and leads to capitalism. Where are you reading "capitalism can only exist through nationalism" from? There are many ways of being capitalistic without even having a nation of your own. Take the jews, for instance.

Incorrect. There is nothing wrong with loving your own country or nation. That's patriotism. A man can be a patriot and generous person towards his brothers and people abroad.
Nationalism however is a more advanced state of patriotism, which in it's most extreme form abuses patriotic feeling and puts particular nation above other nations.
I'd recommend you to distinguish between these two terms.

Capitalism as an economic system which can efficiently work without any nationalist sentimenal attachments. Every state based on market economy has a certain percentage of nationalist population, but they don't have to be in power to maintain the Capitalist order. The later 19th and 20th centuries witnessed a proliferation of nationalisms of all kinds—conservative, religious, social democratic, communist, and fascist. The relationship between fascism, and especially Nazism, and nationalism has been problematic. For some they represent the logical culmination and denouement of nationalism; for others they are radically different, even opposed, the result of new factors like racism and the violence of World War I. In some cases, like the fascism of Mussolini, the link with expansionist integral nationalism is clear.

First you claim that patriotism leads to Capitalism, then you say that Capitalism can work without any nation. Interesting, that. If you haven't noticed yet, Jews ARE a recognized nation with their own territory since 1948.

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

Communism = everyone is enslaved. There is no individual progress, only economic, driven by a select group of people. Watch the movie equilibrium, or 1984 to get an idea of what communism is like. It goes against human nature.

Communism, everyone enslaved? Sorry buddy, not true. Limited civil liberties for ordinary citizens, but that‘s not the same as slavery. Individual progress well existed in totalitarian Communism, you just had to join the Communist party and work your way up on the social pyramid. You've just had to know how to adapt to rules and use the system to your advantage. That was the most notable farce and failure of totalitarian Communism - there still were social classes of the rulers and ruled.
1984 is one of my favourite books, but as I observe those who hand it out to „teach someone about Communism“ often don't have deeper experience with Communist practice and living in Bolshevistic "Real Socialism". 1984 is a warning finger, but first and foremost it's a FICTION. Not a literature of fact describing history. It describes some practices of totalitarian Communism well, while it's completely out of reality in other aspects. Every Communist country was a little different, but in many ways 1984 describes Communist dictatorship through exaggerated lenses. It may sound shocking to you, but living in totalitarian rule in former Communist Czechoslovakia wasn't half that bad as 1984 describes, even though the book has been banned here. You could live quite a decent life if you didn't criticize the system much. Czechoslovakia was, in fact, one of the most a prosperous and respected Communist countries. Nobody has been under permanent 24 hours surveillance, spied by cameras at every step. This goal has been accomplished by technological progress in modern Capitalist world. How ironic - 1984 describes many aspects of current Capitalist "Democratic" world as well.

And if you must depend on crappy movies like Equilibrium to teach you about Communism, I feel very sorry for you. I live in a post-Communist country, you can't fool me with Equilibrium. :cool:

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

Communism = extreme left.
Nationalism = extreme right.
National Socialism = middle ground.
Understand now?

Correct, except the Nationalism part.

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Fascism is generally, but not universally, classified as a far-right ideology. Libertarian scholars such as F. A. Hayek and Ludwig von Mises are noteworthy dissenters from that view; Hayek even considered it far left (see Fascism and ideology). However, even strong Miseans like Murray Rothbard put fascism on the right.
National Bolshevism, the international third position and national anarchism are often regarded as far right, but they transcend the boundaries of ordinary politics.
A further complication is found in Nazism and other "national-revolutionary" ideologies, such as those of the "Left Nazi" or "Third Position" Strasser brothers, Juan Peron in Argentina, Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt, the Baath in Syria and Iraq and groups like International Third Position or the "national-anarchism". On one hand, these movements are nationalist and anti-communist; but, unlike fascism, they mobilize essentially the lower and middle-classes and, when in power, have often nationalized property, especially property owned by foreigners or by members of ethnicities not defined by them as part of their "nation".
Furthermore, the term "far right" has also been used for certain populist or authoritarian regimes, especially for "free market dictatorships". The epitome of such regimes was that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile, but it can be seen (with less market freedom) in many other twentieth-century Latin American military dictatorships.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right)

So Fascism is generally recognized as extreme right. It is Capitalism „with glowes off“, disposed of civil liberties and democratic rights, National socialism indeed transcendents boundaries of ordinary politics and takes similar portion from right and left.

Nationalism IS an important Fascist feature in many cases, but it is NOT an exclusive right wing feature. Thus I believe you wanted to say that extreme Nationalism can transform moderate Capitalism to Fascism. Yes? Good.

Matthew on 7/7/2006 at 10:50

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

You're a {bleep}. National Socialism was not communism. It worked splendidly well before russia and england murdered the heart of it in dresden. Would you like to see pictures and documents proving this?

Yes, please. Note however that documents from the NSDAP or German government documents of the time will not suffice. Objective third-party evidence only, please.

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Doubtful. Cro-magnon man would be an early example of the Fifth Root Race; Atlantis and Atlanteans would be been the earlier Fourth Root Race. And their accomplishments were trumped by the Lemurians.

heywood on 7/7/2006 at 16:50

Quote Posted by AxTng1

OK, who's getting busy with the alt-nick?
Doesn't this belong in CommChat now anyway, where it can get the attention it deserves? :ebil:

Yes! I was meaning to follow up on the topic that started this thread, but now I've come back to see it's been hijacked.

Can you guys keep the discussion game related or find another forum. Please?

Silkworm on 8/7/2006 at 00:57

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

There was nothing "racist" or "hateful" about the nazi party. "aryans" ARE the leaders of humanity. They have the most geniuses and are the fathers of civilization. They should also have a right to have their own nations, especially one that was as great as germany during WWII.

Yes, it's a basic idea. That's because it's what works for whites.

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

No, I am talking about in the history of either country. Germany was a paradise before it was destroyed by the communists and marxists.

What part of "I don't hate anyone or anything" do you not understand?

Let me guess. You're one of those people that believe fruitflies are capable of speech, because of course, brain mass doesn't matter, because to say it does would be racist and mean that I wish to commit genocide on everyone with a smaller brain than my own, right?

In this case, I would have to exterminate every living human being on the planet, because, cro-magnon had on average a 4% bigger brain than modern man.

What's meaningless about facts?

Quote Posted by emg_nerd

You are absolutely wrong in every way. I suggest you read up on your history. And not books written by authors who's last names suffix with "stein" or "berg" who tend to tell the side of the story that benefits them.

Germany was doing far better than england during hitler's term in office, far better than National Socialist America was during it's infancy, even if you adjust for technology.

I'm not a racist. I'm not a right winger.

Wow... amazing.

Disturbing how many people probably think just like this and just know well enought not to repeat these stupidity in front of civilized people