catbarf on 27/12/2007 at 17:06
A recent issue of Popular Mechanics had an article entitled 'You're being watched'. For those who don't know, the article was mostly about the incredible (terrifying) things that companies and the government can now do to keep track of every last bit of information about people. I felt it stated little that I hadn't read before- until I saw a question raised. It very simply stated that we are being watched all the time- at work, on the street- yet the people watching you are never watched in return. Videotaping policemen, for example, can be met with force. Government officials do object to being followed around by people with cameras. Security advocates state that if you have nothing to hide, it isn't an issue. Well, should it also apply to the higher-ups? The government workers, company officials, police? What do you think of the concept?
Gorgonseye on 27/12/2007 at 18:42
Well, let's take note of some things in regards to, trying to watch, "Big brother". There are people trying to watch the companies, looking for dirty little secrets. How do you think we find out about them in the news?
The media IS our source for keeping track of the government. '
Moving on to why, "The man" watches us.
Some people said they don't quite deserve the power they get. Last I checked, this was a democracy.
When we vote, we are saying who we want to lead us. Damn, don't try to take power away from the government, we elect them, the people control the government, not the other damn way around.
As crazy as it sounds (:rolleyes: ) the government and companies do keep track of information for a relatively good reason. If you're buying a large amount of explosives, and recently decided that you want to learn to fly...well, let's not go on.
If you're buying from a store, it isn't too shocking that they want to keep track of it, so they know you're not, y'know, stealing?
Now, I'm not saying, "Yea, let's go one step further and just put cameras all over our house and SEND it to the government so they know what kind of sex I'm having."
But basically, I'm saying while privacy is all well and good, (I don't want anyone seeing me have my happy time, nor commenting on my form or style!:mad: ) but it's a necessary evil, because some people just can't police themselves(Murder, theft, etc), or protect themselves. (Identity theft, etc.)
DaBeast on 27/12/2007 at 18:59
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
Some people said they don't quite deserve the power they get. Last I checked, this was a democracy.
When we vote, we are saying who we want to lead us. Damn, don't try to take power away from the government, we elect them,
the people control the government, not the other damn way around.Ahahahahaha, good one. Seriously though, do you guys not have a data protection act? In the UK when it went public that companies were keeping records on, for example, what kind of food we most often bought, there was a public outcry and the dpa was demanded. Knowing what we buy may be harmless enough but they have no right to collect information on me unless I say so.
catbarf on 27/12/2007 at 20:52
Gorgon, I never said surveillance is a bad thing. I just think that there's something wrong with the people being watched, but anyone higher than the average citizen is free from scrutiny.
Pyrian on 27/12/2007 at 21:07
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
The media IS our source for keeping track of the government.
Large swaths of the media are far too in bed with the government for my liking here in the U.S..
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
When we vote, we are saying who we want to lead us. Damn, don't try to take power away from the government, we elect them, the people control the government, not the other damn way around.
We can only control the government insofar as we know what the government is doing. So, I say, watch 'em. And, y'know, we do, sometimes and in some ways. (C-Span: almost nobody watches it, but at least it exists.) But the vast increases in private citizen surveillance has not been matched by vast increases in public servant surveillance.
Turtle on 27/12/2007 at 21:46
No.
It's a horrible show.
mopgoblin on 27/12/2007 at 22:01
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
When we vote, we are saying who we want to lead us. Damn, don't try to take power away from the government, we elect them, the people control the government, not the other damn way around.
In a typical representative democracy, the people elect the legislature, and in some cases (e.g. the US federal government) also the head of the executive. Most of the executive - and you seem to be mostly talking about the executive rather than the government in general - is not elected, and not particularly accountable in other ways.
Quote:
If you're buying from a store, it isn't too shocking that they want to keep track of it, so they know you're not, y'know,
stealing?Now, I'm not saying, "Yea, let's go one step further and just put cameras all over our house and SEND it to the government so they know what kind of sex I'm having."
The state doesn't always need to watch you fucking to get a pretty good idea of what kind of sex you're having. If you're regularly buying drinks at a gay bar, it's likely you're not exclusively heterosexual. If they know what sex toys you're buying, or what sort of porn you're looking at/for on the internet, they might be able to construct a rather detailed picture.
Quote:
But basically, I'm saying while privacy is all well and good, (I don't want anyone seeing me have my happy time, nor commenting on my form or style!:mad: ) but it's a necessary evil, because some people just can't police themselves(Murder, theft, etc), or protect themselves. (Identity theft, etc.)
Identity theft would largely be more difficult and less profitable/damaging if states and businesses didn't have this obsession with knowing everything about people. As more value is placed on knowing "who", appearing to be someone else gives a greater degree of power. With so much data floating around, it also becomes easier to impersonate others in many situations.
As for theft, I don't see much reason to worry about that. Property can be replaced, but once information escapes your control it's out there forever. Furthermore, I get the impression you're thinking about theft from large businesses - they shouldn't even <em>exist</em>, much less be considered capable of owning property.
Regarding murder, how would spying on people help? There are any number of common objects that can be used to murder a person, and I expect most murders don't happen in public places.
theBlackman on 27/12/2007 at 22:31
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
[...] this was a democracy.
Quote:
Democracy= "the incredible notion that if you accumulate enough ignorance at the polls, you produce intelligence..." Philo Vance :ebil:
The government does need to be "watched". Witness the large number of "elected" officials in the past year in the USA who have been caught stealing from the public (us), taking bribes and indulging in other less than legal, extra-legal and illegal activities.
But then we get what we ask for. Put jackasses in charge, and we do, you are bound to get jackassery.
fett on 27/12/2007 at 22:59
NO. But that one brunette last season was HOT.
Damn your catlike reflexes Turtle
catbarf on 29/12/2007 at 18:05
Quote Posted by theBlackman
Quote Posted by Gorgonseye
[...] this was a democracy.
Democracy= "the incredible notion that if you accumulate enough ignorance at the polls, you produce intelligence..." Philo Vance :ebil:
The government does need to be "watched". Witness the large number of "elected" officials in the past year in the USA who have been caught stealing from the public (us), taking bribes and indulging in other less than legal, extra-legal and illegal activities.
But then we get what we ask for. Put jackasses in charge, and we do, you are bound to get jackassery.
Great quote, I'll need to remember that. I agree completely.
