skacky on 7/1/2017 at 02:52
Just want to remind everyone that Alien is an overtly sexual film, so this particular scene is done on purpose and 100% in tone.
Sulphur on 7/1/2017 at 03:58
I was wondering when someone would bring that up. It is, in the end, a film about violation.
Tocky on 7/1/2017 at 04:47
Yes but violation of everyone. The question is the end scene just eye candy for men? I see what you mean about impending penetration being a fear inherent in the plot and the disrobing being prelude though.
Sulphur on 7/1/2017 at 06:38
Honestly, it'd be sexist if it were a flimsy excuse for a bit of skin, but the movie's clearly setting up the tone for what comes next, which you can't ignore. Did the camera really need to get that close in to show Ripley in her underwear? Not really - alarmists may have some cause for concern if that were all the scene was for. I read that scene intuitively, however, as Ripley feeling safe enough to decompress and disrobe, while the POV of the camera is inherently setting up a feeling of unease. I did not pop a boner during that part, because this was a horror movie, and it was deeply unsexy to me given what had come before.
In the end, sexism is a thing, and definitely needs to be addressed in movies where it serves no purpose beyond titillating men. Alien is not a film you should be pointing a finger at for the one moment it plays with your expectations of its protagonist being in a safe space; there are far worse movies that deserve that.
Sulphur on 7/1/2017 at 06:47
What we actually need, though, is a woman's viewpoint on all of this. I guess it's okay for a bunch of men to toss opinions back and forth about roughly half of the human race, but it'd be nice if the other half weighs in on a topic that is mostly about them.
Vivian on 7/1/2017 at 09:35
True dat.
Alien (which I didn't bring up, incidentally, that was part of tockys meltdown) is definitely a minor thing, I always just thought the tone was a little off, and presumed that a bit of gawping was some b-movie obligation the makers thought they should fulfill. It was noticeably not repeated (for any character) in Aliens.
The dude in Jurassic World tho, that was pretty actually bad.
PigLick on 7/1/2017 at 09:43
ttlg is pretty much a boys club these days though, so....
heywood on 7/1/2017 at 11:54
My first thought is "so what about it?"
On second thought, heavy makeup on women is somewhat out of fashion these days, eye shadow and mascara in particular. Now that being a glam guy, fem boy, or trans in public is socially acceptable (at least in most major metropolitan areas) it's not terribly surprising to see the marketing shift that way.
Thirith on 7/1/2017 at 11:56
Quote Posted by Tocky
Strawmanning? Where? He mentioned the ratio of men to women on Star wars so I mentioned the ratio on Harry Potter. How is that strawmanning? If the ratio is important on one then it is on the other. Where did I strawman? Come up with something besides baseless accusation and I might agree with you and not think you are the one who is sad.
Quote:
You want stories to be altered. You want everything measured with an eye dropper to make sure nobody is offended by a portion of a body not even considered to be the sexual bits. What a pathetic weenie generation where people look for something to be offended by. I don't know how you enjoy anything at all with all the searching for things to be offended by.
All of this is strawmanning, pure and simple. Vivian criticised, he never said a) he was offended, b) any depiction of bodies was offensive, c) he wanted stories to be altered. Then there's your silly, reductive bit about boners.
It's absolutely fair to disagree with Vivian's argument, but from the first you've been misunderstanding and misrepresenting. It's not Vivian's position that's counter to actual discussiion, it's yours, which reads all criticism as offense and as attempts to censor. That's basically libertarian for "Nah nah nah, I can't hear you, I've got my fingers stuck in my ears!" You have some points with respect to context, but even those are limited, mainly because something can be justified on one level (say, plot) and still iffy on another (you can easily make a woman empowered and still have the camera leering all over her) - and regardless of this, saying that something is iffy != saying that it should be prohibited or censored or "Will no one think of the children?!"
SubJeff on 7/1/2017 at 15:54
The biggest load of bs itt is this dumb suggestion that you need a woman's opinion on it, like male brains are just unable to recognise sexism.
