PigLick on 6/1/2017 at 12:38
always with the man-nappies
Tocky on 6/1/2017 at 13:49
Right. Alien was dodgy. They were all (men too) in their underwear at the beginning because of cryo-sleep. She was preparing for it at the end. You (Vivian) absolutely do not take into account context. You knee jerk. Your friends knee jerk. You want stories to be altered. You want everything measured with an eye dropper to make sure nobody is offended by a portion of a body not even considered to be the sexual bits. What a pathetic weenie generation where people look for something to be offended by. I don't know how you enjoy anything at all with all the searching for things to be offended by. Oh heavens they showed this centimeter of skin for the woman we must measure the centimeters for the men. Pathetic.
And meanwhile you miss the import of the scene. You miss what it is saying. That is the true sorrow.
Vivian on 6/1/2017 at 13:52
God, whatever fantasy world that all came from sucks dude. Lighten up.
Seeing as we're making up what each other do, you really need to stop huffing paint in your mums giant vagina, it's making you grouchy.
Anyways, I'm not any of that bullshit you just spouted. I'm not even much younger than you, I suspect. Just because I've pointed out what I think are a few problematic sections of something you enjoy doesn't mean you have to ramble on about 'ooh this generation' instead of actually thinking about it for a bit. But then thinking about stuff through the fume-haze IS hard, I guess.
Trance on 6/1/2017 at 14:16
Nah, I think Tocky is more correct than you are, here. Context is important, and I agree with him that you seem to be ignoring it when casting judgment on these films. (The Harry Potter one I can't speak to, didn't watch them beyond the second film.) Tocky may have gone to extremes representing your position at the end there, but I think the core of it is accurate.
Your thesis doesn't, and shouldn't, apply in all cases.
Thirith on 6/1/2017 at 14:18
It can make sense and be empowering on one level while still being absolute male-gaze fodder on another, same as with that scene in Alien. Things usually have more than one dimension.
And Tocky's strawmanning of Vivian and his opinion is just sad, really.
heywood on 6/1/2017 at 15:14
Tocky, you are trying too hard. If it were simply a matter of Ripley getting into the cryo sleep pod to end the film, you would have a point. But the underwear scene at the end of Alien was completely gratuitous young male boner bait. Link below if you need to refresh your memory.
[video=youtube;hIgdIugoUJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIgdIugoUJc[/video]
That said, I do not agree with Viv that movies should aim for equality of skin to meet somebody's idea of political correctness. There's nothing wrong with making a flick for a predominantly male audience and including some titillation to sell it, e.g. Alien or Porky's. And there's nothing wrong with making a flick for a predominantly female audience and including some titillation to sell it, e.g. Magic Mike or 50 Shades. Granted there is a lot more of the former than the latter, but that is a function of what sells to men vs. women. Marketing sex appeal is not sexism. Sexism is stereotyping, prejudice, and discrimination.
Now, what I don't want to see is titillation in a movie marketed to kids. And that's where RotJ pushes the limit a bit. While it's true that Leia is a strong female character, there is no good reason for exposing kids to scenes suggesting sex slavery or bondage.
Vivian on 6/1/2017 at 15:51
Hang on, you can't just go 'like Alien or Porky's', like they're anywhere near the same bracket. What?
Look, there's a lot of either miscommunication or misrepresentation going on here. If you are presenting what you intend to be a credible female lead character in a film that is supposed to have universal appeal (I can and will argue that Alien deffo fits into that category), and you then either dress them in a weird novelty sex outfit or have a reason for them to be skimpily dressed while the camera pretty much flies up their bum, then it seems fairer that you also do that to the male characters. Otherwise you are making a film thats for guys to get aroused to, which I guess is a similar way of saying what I'm trying to say, i.e. that it will probably make straight women a bit uncomfortable. If you don't admit that's what you're doing, and just say this is a totally normal representation of a normal female character, just that 'normal' means really hot and leaning into the camera at all the right angles, then you're straying into sexism. That's my point. Well, it's not as much my point, as it's my understanding of why those bits make my girlfriend think the film we're watching can't be taken seriously anymore. You can call that 'political correctness' if you want, but fuck knows why. Neither of us are politicians.
Going back to Rogue One, and the 'context is all' thing, there is a bit where Jyn definitely takes off at least some of her clothes, because she changes clothes. There is context there for showing us her in her pants. Do you think doing that would really add much, to her character or to the film?
Tocky on 6/1/2017 at 19:09
Quote Posted by Vivian
God, whatever fantasy world that all came from sucks dude. Lighten up.
Seeing as we're making up what each other do, you really need to stop huffing paint in your mums giant vagina, it's making you grouchy.
Anyways, I'm not any of that bullshit you just spouted. I'm not even much younger than you, I suspect. Just because I've pointed out what I think are a few problematic sections of something you enjoy doesn't mean you have to ramble on about 'ooh this generation' instead of actually thinking about it for a bit. But then thinking about stuff through the fume-haze IS hard, I guess.
I will address others actual arguments when I get time (at work now) but I just want to point out (since you haven't the wit to realize it) that by using the "your mum" juvenile jab you not only expose your lack of character and decency but your lack of argument. I let you know that I'm sensitive because my mom may soon die and you sharpen that knowledge into a dagger to use on me. I'm not painting the kitchen now so this isn't an off the hip response any longer. My reaction to your bizarre childish injection into political discussion was spot on the first time I now see.
For some reason you cannot understand that I have thought of what you pointed out and rejected it as over reactionary. I have also pointed out how a woman breaking free of slave or sexual bondage and saving herself is very feminist which you reject as only by low standards. We will never come together on this because you are now seeking emotional triggers to derail me and though you fail it does let me know what sort of person you are and frankly it is disgusting to a point I no longer wish to converse with you. How you managed to even get a girlfriend has become something of a wonder to me. Low standards I assume. Thank heaven I raised my daughter to not only recognize actual sexism but the sort who resorts to low blows.
I am harsh but I am honest. I think the over reaction to a bit of skin anyone can see on the beach is pathetic.
