Kolya on 11/1/2017 at 11:09
Yeah, maybe not the best choice of words. Call it complaining then. Or voicing their concern. It doesn't change the meaning but is probably less offensive.
Thirith on 11/1/2017 at 12:28
There's that word again: "offensive". It's not about hurting someone's feelings - it's about dismissing a point of view without considering it in good faith.
Vivian on 11/1/2017 at 13:07
Quote Posted by Kolya
What I disagreed with was that this was somehow
"emblematic of everything that was wrong in the 70's and continues to be wrong today." We had and have more serious problems than the fact that men adore a dosed starlet for wearing a bikini in a scifi-swashbuckler in the 70s. Men like to look at scantily clad young women, this is never going to change. The attitude towards and success of actual feminist issues however has improved a lot (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism) during and since the 70s. Ignoring that and eternally painting women as victims of a patriarchal society, whether it is actually the case or not, just because it is seems a useful concept to push an agenda, is doing no one a favour. There are cases where it is justified but I don't think this is one of them.
Sorry man, didn't notice this. I dunno if I'm 'eternally painting women as victims of a patriarchal society' by saying that - what I meant was, this was when it was basically assumed that major female characters were there to provide t&a, regardless of their other features, which I think is undermining, and still happens quite a lot.
Kolya on 11/1/2017 at 13:44
Quote Posted by Thirith
There's that word again: "offensive". It's not about hurting someone's feelings - it's about dismissing a point of view without considering it in good faith.
But I did consider it in my post before that? The one you're referring to was just a correction.
Goddamn, I just noticed a microcrack in my phone's display!
Vivian, okay I understand that better now but that wasn't really the case with princess Leia I think. The slave Leia thing was rather short in regard to the movie and not definitive of her role, regardless of some fanboy dreams.
Vivian on 11/1/2017 at 14:53
Quote Posted by Kolya
not definitive of her role, regardless of some fanboy dreams.
This is an arguable point. Her role in the film, no, but it definitely looms large in the public perception of the character. Google image search for princess leia overwhelmingly brings up either the headphones/toga party look or the space bikini, and it has been referenced/dressed up as lots of times (it was even in friends).
Renault on 11/1/2017 at 15:12
If you're just talking about the slave outfit though (which is really what this debate is about), you're only getting maybe 1 in 10 on that same google search. And some of those aren't even Carrie Fisher, they're just women dressing up like that for cosplay or Halloween or something.
Vivian on 11/1/2017 at 15:14
Other people dressing up as it doesn't really disprove my point about cultural impact though. And yeah like I said, either white robe or space bikini, pretty much. Those are the two costumes the character is known for.
Kolya on 11/1/2017 at 15:29
It's an image search. Not a wittiness search.
Renault on 11/1/2017 at 16:16
Quote Posted by Vivian
either white robe or space bikini, pretty much. Those are the two costumes the character is known for.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the point was whether the sexist slave outfit in particular was definitive of her role in SW. No one is saying the white robe outfit is offensive in any way.
Fingernail on 11/1/2017 at 16:16
On a side point, whether or not men are dressed as skimpily can't be considered equivalent anyway since men are part of the dominant set. So even if Sting were naked (and what an image), what that represents is not the same as it would be were he a woman.
Does that mean men can't be sexually exploited eg. in a movie? No, but I'd consider it far rarer. And a male actor would have many more choices and options were he to choose NOT to obey such a demand in a script than a female one. Therefore the director/writer's command to unstrip is inherently less coercive. There was a good twitter (or was it tumblr) of choice female casting calls, highlighting the rampant sexualisation of actresses. Sorry, female actors.
