SubJeff on 3/11/2020 at 12:40
Quote Posted by raph
I believe you when you say you don't live in a bubble, in that I believe that you believe so. But the truth is we all do.
Err, I live in bubble, but not and
upper-class bubble.
I didn't know it was transgender awareness month. In the UK it's (
https://uk.movember.com/) Movember.
mopgoblin on 3/11/2020 at 13:03
Quote Posted by icemann
Some of the mass shootings are just from troubled individuals. Like heavily bullied young kids, who happen to get their hands on guns etc.
I'm not sure how accurate that is in practice. I know that there was a lot of talk about bullying after Columbine, but that's quite disputed, and one of the killers seems to have been more of a proto-incel if anything. Also, mass murders are overwhelmingly committed by men despite firearms meaning that women should in theory have just as much ability - if bullying alone was enough to create mass murderers then there should be a lot more mass shootings by women than the 3-4% that we see. On the other hand, a lot of the male shooters hate women and/or target women (especially current or former partners), and misogyny is often correlated with other kinds of bigotry. I'm not discounting that there are occasional weird cases, but mass murder is definitely correlated with buying into the various brands of nazi/white-supremacist/misogynist/bigoted crap.
SubJeff on 3/11/2020 at 13:13
Men are more violent and that's all there is to it.
How many bar fights, comparatively, involve women?
mopgoblin on 3/11/2020 at 13:37
Well I did help break one up once, but that doesn't really count. And a lot of mass shooters have histories of domestic violence, write manifestos about how much they hate women, that sort of thing. I mean I'm not unconvinced that that could be an accurate representation of how men are generally, but I definitely prefer the explanation where it's a fairly specific group of bad guys (and it does seem more plausible).
SubJeff on 3/11/2020 at 14:12
It is a specific group, but it's unsurprising they are men.
This is common sense.
WingedKagouti on 3/11/2020 at 17:08
Quote Posted by SubJeff
It is a specific group, but it's unsurprising they are men.
This is common sense.
Mostly because the women with similar psychological issues tend to go for suicide instead.
mopgoblin on 3/11/2020 at 22:15
There's not a reliable evidence base suggesting that mental illness is behind the majority of mass shootings, and it's only involved in a small single-digit percentage of violent crime generally (i.e. there's a negative correlation, if anything). You've got to bear in mind that gun nuts love to push the mental illness angle to avoid general restrictions on guns, and they're perversely influential in the US, so that narrative gets bounced around a lot without any real confirmation.
Like I said, a lot of mass shooters have a history of domestic violence, apparently the more victims there are the higher the chance that the shooter has one too. And there are those incel manifestos that various mass shooters have made. As I see it there are two possibilities, either those behaviours and beliefs (on that level) are just that common among men generally, or there's a correlation between that kind of crap and going out and killing a bunch of people. In the latter case it doesn't really matter what kind of causal connection there is for the purposes of assessing whether someone is a threat.
PigLick on 4/11/2020 at 05:52
Yeh mental illness is the goto explanation whenever a mass killing occurs, but I agree with mopgoblin it really only seems to be very few that end up being that. Most people with mental illness are in fact less likely to cause violence. So violent male assholes, and there are so many of them its really hard to see how one could predict which violent asshole is going to be the one to act out their murderous fantasy.
Starker on 4/11/2020 at 06:07
Quote Posted by mopgoblin
...and misogyny is often correlated with other kinds of bigotry. I'm not discounting that there are occasional weird cases, but mass murder is definitely correlated with buying into the various brands of nazi/white-supremacist/misogynist/bigoted crap.
I've spent some time in the alt-right and worse circles -- the MRAs, the incels, the redpillers, the rational atheists, the "intellectual" dark web, the ordinary reactionary conservatives, the white supremacists, the outright fascists/nazis, the boogaloo boys, the siegepilled... and I can absolutely confirm that one constant throughline is the rampant misogyny. Whatever beliefs they hold, you can pretty much bet that misogyny is the peanut butter to their bigoted jelly.
PigLick on 4/11/2020 at 13:48
why have you spent time there? are you a reformed incel or something
or was it
[video=youtube;uo3rZjJB1hY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo3rZjJB1hY[/video]
