mothra on 23/6/2010 at 16:46
Quote Posted by DDL
This back and forth sniping would be waaaay cooler if you guys could all drop to third person perspective for a few seconds.
DDL'd :thumb:
chris the cynic on 23/6/2010 at 17:46
Quote Posted by Sulphur
If I'd played the game and discovered that flashy takedowns are mandatory and you have to play it as an action game, I'd be really pissed myself.
The word from the developers indicates two things.
The first is that they are probably not mandatory in terms of "if you want to play the game you have to endure them" since "
in many cases you can just go around guards without needing to engage them at all. I mean, it depends, but since everything is designed in a non-linear fashion, just sneaking around people should be possible in most cases!"
The second is that if you want to knock people out by hand they probably are because "
we dropped [creeping up behind people and banging them on the head]. We wanted to focus more on the takedowns."
And of course there are the bosses they've said you'll have to not only fight but also kill.
I'm not totally sure based on what you wrote whether getting that information will make you feel better about the game, worse, or about the same as before you knew it.
-
Personally I'm a little bit confused about "should be possible." Aren't they testing this? I guess you could wait until alpha and beta testing to see whether it's even possible to complete your levels in one of the primary ways you expect people to attempt them, but it seems like it would be wiser to try to figure out whether it's possible while you are making them. That way you catch any potential problems earlier and have an easier time fixing them.
I don't mean detailed play testing, one quick run through to see that it could be done would be enough. (With obvious limitations if the AI isn't done yet, but if you're just testing whether its possible to sneak passed them you don't need it perfect-polished-done.)
Manwe on 23/6/2010 at 17:50
Quote Posted by Sulphur
I don't think we have enough information just yet.
You don't think we have enough information ? After the disasters that TDS, DX IW, Bioshock 2, Farcry 2, Oblivion, Modern Warfare 2 and god knows how many other games were, you still think we have no reason to be pessimistic ?
You really think the game will magically turn out to be a fantastic PC game right at the end ? You really think they'll just throw all the console crap away and make a fantastic port in the last few days of development ?
They won't abandon the switches to 3rd person in favor of leaning and more control over the character. It just won't happen, because it never happens. Switches to 3rd person and one button auto-kill are in the game, it's a fact, you can see it right there on the video. And it's not going away, because it's popular and trendy in recent games.
That alone is more than enough for me to consider the game a complete failure. This is Deus Ex we're talking about, not Gears of War. DX was the most amazing immersive experience I've ever had in my life. This just looks like "generic action game n°515654". I'm expecting way more from a franchise like this.
And like Papy, I couldn't care less if it's commercially successful or not (the developers shouldn't care either). I just want to play a game which is an improvement over the original not something dumbed down for the masses.
But we all know it will be a huge success anyway. It will probably be considered like a huge revolution in gaming. Will that make it easier for a true DX spiritual successor to be made ? Of course not. They'll just continue in the same direction, stripping it even more of it's complex features to make it more like a shooter. Just look at Bioshock 2. Was it closer to System Shock 2 than Bioshock 1 ? Of course not.
thiefinthedark on 23/6/2010 at 18:31
Quote Posted by Manwe
You don't think we have enough information ? After the disasters that TDS, DX IW, Bioshock 2, Farcry 2, Oblivion, Modern Warfare 2 and god knows how many other games were, you still think we have no reason to be pessimistic ?
You really think the game will magically turn out to be a fantastic PC game right at the end ? You really think they'll just throw all the console crap away and make a fantastic port in the last few days of development ?
They won't abandon the switches to 3rd person in favor of leaning and more control over the character. It just won't happen, because it never happens. Switches to 3rd person and one button auto-kill are in the game, it's a fact, you can see it right there on the video. And it's not going away, because it's popular and trendy in recent games.
That alone is more than enough for me to consider the game a complete failure. This is Deus Ex we're talking about, not Gears of War. DX was the most amazing immersive experience I've ever had in my life. This just looks like "generic action game n°515654". I'm expecting way more from a franchise like this.
And like Papy, I couldn't care less if it's commercially successful or not (the developers shouldn't care either). I just want to play a game which is an improvement over the original not something dumbed down for the masses.
But we all know it will be a huge success anyway. It will probably be considered like a huge revolution in gaming. Will that make it easier for a true DX spiritual successor to be made ? Of course not. They'll just continue in the same direction, stripping it even more of it's complex features to make it more like a shooter. Just look at Bioshock 2. Was it closer to System Shock 2 than Bioshock 1 ? Of course not.
You, sir, win a large star. :D
DDL on 23/6/2010 at 18:36
Quote Posted by Manwe
But we all know it will be a huge success anyway.
You never know: it might end up being rejected by the SHOOT TEH DOODZ crowd because it's too complicated, and rejected by all us looking glass elitists for being too dumb.
Hahhahaha no wait, what am I saying? We're all going to buy it even if it IS shit, just so we can bitch, right? I know I am.
(and I will probably enjoy it a lot, and then have to pretend I didn't*)
*I've completed IW more than I have DX, simply because it requires far less investment in time and brain. Also, ragdolls never ever ever get old.
Ostriig on 23/6/2010 at 18:41
Quote Posted by Manwe
And like Papy, I couldn't care less if it's commercially successful or not (
the developers shouldn't care either).
Get the fuck out.
Eldron on 23/6/2010 at 19:15
Yeah, studios should just play around and not care about having a commercial success.
Even better in the end when everyone ends up without a job.
TheCapedPillager on 23/6/2010 at 19:49
Quote Posted by Eldron
Yeah, studios should just play around and not care about having a commercial success.
Even better in the end when everyone ends up without a job.
Hey, it worked for LGS. :p
Seriously though, what I think Manwe was trying to say was that commercial success should be at the back of a developers mind, not in their design decisions. Too many games nowadays try to take a 'winning' formula like Halo and then splash a bit of different looking paint to try give the game a unique selling point. While this is fine for the majority of gamers, this isn't the kind of design process that led to the games that many TTLG'ers call their favourites. The guys and gals at LGS and Ion Storm Austin were definitely making games for themselves, we're just lucky enough that they were able to make them for as long as they were since few really appreciated these games (at the time anyway).
Manwe on 23/6/2010 at 20:13
Quote Posted by Eldron
Yeah, studios should just play around and not care about having a commercial success.
Even better in the end when everyone ends up without a job.
I never said they shouldn't be commercially viable companies. Obviously if developers spend 10 years making a game they'll have troubles making a profit in the end and will go bankrupt. But ideally developers should focus on making the best game possible, not on how to sell as many copies as they can. They shouldn't make compromises just to please the widest audience possible.
But of course it's more complicated than that and publishers will always interfere in the development of a game.
Eldron on 23/6/2010 at 20:56
Forcing a success usually also ends up in a bad way, since genuine fun (even if it's not the kind of fun you guys prefer) requires some solid designs. So successfull places will be working to create a good game, and have the money craze be something they have on the side, not as a main goal.
But then there's the whole thing about getting enough markets, budgets, and a publisher breathing down your neck, and those deadlines flying by. Games sadly costs alot of money these days to create.
I'm not going to defend DX:HR in the future if it eventually ends up being a shallow game, but atleast for now I'm not going to let the first major compromise end up as a "no deal" for the rest of the game.
They still DO have a bunch left to show, we've only seen a dialogue some minor exploration and one of the games combat sequences done in one of some possible way.
A bit on/off topic again, didn't bloodlines have a takedown/stealth kill?
