negativeliberty on 23/6/2010 at 06:05
Quote Posted by Papy
If I like a game, then I obviously wish for this game to be a commercial success. But if I don't like it, then it's obviously better for me if it's a failure. That way, the next guy may want to try something else that could please me.
The thing is I don't believe for one second that the team behind HR is on a secret crusade to create games like Deus Ex. If they make compromise with HR, it is more by having to loosely stick to some IP for marketing reasons rather than putting gameplay they don't want. To me, they wanted the 3rd person cover, they wanted the health regen, they wanted the "awesomel" takedown. My guess is if HR is a success and if they make a sequel, they'll use this success to move away even more than HR was from the original gameplay of Deus Ex. So, considering there is almost no chance I will find this game interesting (that is if I ever play it), why should I care if HR is a success or not?
This.
Nihilism on 23/6/2010 at 07:13
Quote Posted by Papy
If I like a game, then I obviously wish for this game to be a commercial success. But if I don't like it, then it's obviously better for me if it's a failure. That way, the next guy may want to try something else that could please me.
The thing is I don't believe for one second that the team behind HR is on a secret crusade to create games like Deus Ex. If they make compromise with HR, it is more by having to loosely stick to some IP for marketing reasons rather than putting gameplay they don't want. To me, they wanted the 3rd person cover, they wanted the health regen, they wanted the "awesomel" takedown. My guess is if HR is a success and if they make a sequel, they'll use this success to move away even more than HR was from the original gameplay of Deus Ex. So, considering there is almost no chance I will find this game interesting (that is if I ever play it), why should I care if HR is a success or not?
Inline Image:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4192/de3og.pngMelan on 23/6/2010 at 07:13
Quote Posted by Ostriig
If you want this series to be successful you have to understand that they must pursue a larger market than just what's left of the old DX fandom, especially when considering these days' budgets and how much the gaming market has grown since we last had a proper Deus Ex. The success of games such as Fallout 3 and, as much as TTLG jerked its collective willy at it, Bioshock may have helped show a renewed interest in action-RPG hybrids, and if DXHR and Thief 4 manage to reacquire a healthy playerbase and introduce new gamers to the sort of concepts we here value we may see said concepts implemented more and more in future iterations. But first it is vital for these franchises that DXHR gains commercial success, lest EM sink with it like ISA sunk with IW tied around its throat. I'd also prefer as little compromise as possible, but I'm aware that
some is likely necessary at least at first if Deus Ex is to regain success as a franchise.
This is problematic. First, it is right that games have become a lot more expensive to produce which has significantly affected companies' risk-taking behaviour, and also reduced the number of companies financing development studios. There are compromises that have to be made no matter what; the publishers will make sure of it.
Second, as a player, it is not my duty to "support the troops" - I am buying a form of entertainment, and I have my likes and dislikes. I would like an "immersive sim" type game, and there is a degree to which I accept changes to that idea. Some changes might actually be good. But in the end, there is a point where a company's "I am selling this" and my "I am buying that" curves no longer have an intersection. So far, I am cautiously optimistic about DX:HR, although there are some elements and decisions in it I plain don't like. Increase the last due to publisher pressure, focus groups or designer hubrys and I am no longer interested. After a while, the sacrifices end up useless because what we get out of them is fundamentally different from what we were interested in.
If immersive sims aren't viable in today's market (possible), I can accept that and play things like
The Nameless Mod or
The Dark Mod - stuff made by people who don't have the commercial pressures DX's developers do. No hard feelings, just the recognition that I am not the part of the market. Happened with my other hobby, too.
Eldron on 23/6/2010 at 08:18
I'll go back to what I've said before:
Compared to XCOM, deus ex:HR seems to retain way more of what made the original good.
polytourist97 on 23/6/2010 at 09:56
I would agree.
I would also agree, however, that the switches to third-person are awkward and unnecessary (ladders? really?) and the automatic takedowns seem a bit much. Everything else looks pretty good to me though.
Ostriig on 23/6/2010 at 12:28
Yeah, I'm also in that boat.
Quote Posted by Papy
But if I don't like it, then it's obviously better for me if it's a failure. That way, the next guy may want to try something else that could please me.
, if by "something else" you meant an entirely different franchise. If you meant something else within the DX franchise, most likely not, a failure could easily turn into the last nail in its coffin.
Quote:
My guess is if HR is a success and if they make a sequel, they'll use this success to move away even more than HR was from the original gameplay of Deus Ex.
Granted, that's also possible. Nonetheless, the reason why I said "possibly" to your statement before is that it's not as clear cut - if one AAA FPS/RPG hybrid flops, publishers may be more reluctant to greenlight future FPS/RPG hybrids on the whole, regardless of IP, and said failure might actually be worse for you and your interest in the specific genre. Conversely, a success may mean that even in the event that DX doesn't further improve from then on, other developers may be allowed to try other variations and permutations in the FPS/RPG space, maybe even more towards what the original DX was, that "something else" to please you.
Quote Posted by Melan
Second, as a player, it is not my duty to "support the troops" - I am buying a form of entertainment, and I have my likes and dislikes.
Just a sec, I think you're misunderstanding me - I'm in no way suggesting anyone should buy a game they don't like in the hopes that the future will bring better. With that paragraph I was merely trying to highlight that in the current industry and market context, getting to the point where a theoretical DX++ would get given the go-ahead is a process, and that the industry has to inch its way through its new, expanded target demographics that are unfamiliar with that sort of design (the last well-known, successful execution being from 10 years ago). I was going off thiefinthedark's earlier statement that he wanted the series to be successful, and commenting on what that implied.
ZylonBane on 23/6/2010 at 14:10
It looks like EM really, really, really wants to make a completely third-person game (you know, for kids!), but the only thing holding them back is the knowledge that the Deus Ex fans would utterly crucify them if they did that.
mothra on 23/6/2010 at 14:31
my guess is they REALLY think they have some kind of comprehensive design or new "hybrid" going on and that this is innovative. "we are tearing down walls here, I tell you, history in the making"
or it is just like they said themselves:
"it looks cooler" and now my addition to it: will get more sales. end-of-discussion. game sucks but sells well. publisher happy. I stay employed. win-win"
Sulphur on 23/6/2010 at 14:36
I know this is futile, but could you guys save the 'this game sucks' bitching for until after you've played the fucking game?
mothra on 23/6/2010 at 14:50
hey, I guess the game will be pretty good if measured against today's "AAA" products like CallOfDuty/Halo/GOW and I guess I will enjoy playing it (in te same extent I enjoyed Batman:AA) but atm all the decisions that seem to have gone into it are not indicating any intelligence or craftsmanship except the visuals. And they really said that "it's cooler" and we need the "instant player-gratification, the constant rewarding" so I only exaggerated a little bit. If you wanna have the rainbox-version of this thread I guess you have to go to gametrailers.com board. And the information released sofar does give you a position to have/form an opinion even if it is negative or tongue-in-cheek. And sorry, I don't need to play a game to have a opinion on changing perspective during gameplay or floaty cam during evesdropping.
