Chade on 23/6/2010 at 21:41
Quote Posted by Manwe
After the disasters that TDS, DX IW, Bioshock 2, Farcry 2, Oblivion, Modern Warfare 2 ... You really think the game will magically turn out to be a fantastic PC game right at the end ?
Realistically, if you were nodding along with Manwe while he called all those games "disasters", you are not going to find dx:hr to be an acceptable "pc game" ...
thiefinthedark on 23/6/2010 at 22:14
Quote Posted by Chade
Realistically, if you were nodding along with Manwe while he called all those games "disasters", you are not going to find dx:hr to be an acceptable "pc game" ...
TDS, DX IW: Already been spoken for here, we don't need to list the failings for the umpteenth time.
Bioshock 2: Meh. Mediocre sequel done by a completely different team from #1 Multiplayer added to sell more units. Nothing amazing, nor particularly earth-shattering.
Farcry 2: Randomly cashed in on the name of an outstanding game just to sell units. Engine was amazing, execution horrific. Multiple glaring design failures that the developers ignored to get it out the door on-budget.
Oblivion: Took everything that made Morrowind an ground-breaking RPG, and flushed it down the toilet in order to streamline the game so that it would both run on console hardware, and so console users could play it. Gimped UI, horrific character system, the list goes on and on. Sure, pretty visuals, but the PC version requires 16GB of mods to make it semi-enjoyable to play.
Modern Warfare 2: "It's not balanced for Lean" "The PC version will have exclusive features, like graphical options and mousewheel support".
Sure, maybe disasters is a bit harsh in cases like Bioshock 2, which was simply mediocre. But in the other cases they WERE disasters, when held to the candle of their predecessors. Be it due to developer lazinesss (MW2) or simply ass-backwards execution, these games are white elephants that left most gamers scratching their heads in dismay. If you want to hold them as the crowning achievements of gaming in the past 10 years I would recommend a quick psychologists visit, as you may be suffering from dementia.
Chade on 23/6/2010 at 22:24
Are you trying to argue against my post, or for it? You're not doing anything to convince me that you can view all those games as disasters and yet still be likely to enjoy dx3.
Eldron on 23/6/2010 at 23:15
Quote Posted by thiefinthedark
Oblivion: Took everything that made Morrowind an ground-breaking RPG, and flushed it down the toilet in order to streamline the game so that it would both run on console hardware, and so console users could play it. Gimped UI, horrific character system, the list goes on and on. Sure, pretty visuals, but the PC version requires 16GB of mods to make it semi-enjoyable to play.
Last time I checked gameplay wasn't something that's exclusive to hardware, morrowind was released on the original xbox and followed that hardware, morrowind is also playable on the xbox 360.
I'll agree with whatever you'll have to say about the toned down skillset, badly designed leveled monster system, and a ton more of that stuff, but if you want to come of a bit more agreeable, stop the console bashing. and IMO, daggerfall is still superior, but I guess I loved the completely different thing they did with morrowind. Even bethesda knows that most people prefer to mod Oblivion to play more like morrowind, so they're hopefully going to go back to what made morrowind good in the next title, with the blingbling that gathered the massive crowds for oblivion.
While for example, bioshock left us hanging without the very flexible moddable unreal engine and its editor that could've been released for it, bethesda continued to embrace the modding community even more on oblivion, with more features.
I mean, I'm hating on bioshock as much as you're hating on DX:HR, but I still have come to accept that some of bioshock still was entertaining. Once. (and eventually has ment the death of shock as it was) :(
Matthew on 24/6/2010 at 09:20
Quote Posted by Eldron
A bit on/off topic again, didn't bloodlines have a takedown/stealth kill?
Yes. IIRC it was a third-person cutaway one.
mothra on 24/6/2010 at 10:03
Quote Posted by Matthew
Yes. IIRC it was a third-person cutaway one.
when you take out your sword Vampires switches to 3rd person and stays there except if you switch back to 1st manualy. then again if you use the sword (hit or backstab) it returns to 3rd person.
piercehead on 24/6/2010 at 11:18
Quote Posted by Matthew
Yes. IIRC it was a third-person cutaway one.
Indeed, every time you pounce to feed on some good ol' claret. Totally destroyed the immersion for me...actually it didn't; I thought it looked quite cool, call me shallow :P
Sulphur on 24/6/2010 at 15:25
Quote Posted by chris the cynic
The word from the developers indicates two things.
The first is that they are probably not mandatory in terms of "if you want to play the game you have to endure them" since "
in many cases you can just go around guards without needing to engage them at all. I mean, it depends, but since everything is designed in a non-linear fashion, just sneaking around people should be possible in most cases!"
The second is that if you want to knock people out by hand they probably are because "
we dropped [creeping up behind people and banging them on the head]. We wanted to focus more on the takedowns."
And of course there are the bosses they've said you'll have to not only fight but also kill.
I'm not totally sure based on what you wrote whether getting that information will make you feel better about the game, worse, or about the same as before you knew it.
Thanks, that helps. Now I understand that boffing people on the head would be something people here would want, what with a lot of us being Thief fans and all. It's a questionable decision, no doubt.
However, does the apparent lack of melee weapons means that there won't be silenced weapons or a tranq gun/crossbow to help with stealth kills? That's pretty much what I did when I played the game the first time; removing
that would make for a rather large bone of contention.
About the boss fights - well, they were there in the original. Some of the bosses you didn't have to kill, but there's at least one that you had to - Anna, for instance. A completely non-lethal playthrough was only possible at this point by making use of a game exploit. It's a minor sticking point for me - the real point was Deus Ex let you make decisions that could dramatically alter the branching of the story line, and that's something Deus Ex: HR needs to have if it wants to live up to the original.
Quote Posted by Manwe
You don't think we have enough information ? After the disasters that TDS, DX IW, Bioshock 2, Farcry 2, Oblivion, Modern Warfare 2 and god knows how many other games were, you still think we have no reason to be pessimistic ?
None of that has anything much to do with Deus Ex: HR, except for IW. What are you trying to say here? That sequels suck? Well, holy rampant generalisation, Batman!
Quote:
You really think the game will magically turn out to be a fantastic PC game right at the end ? You really think they'll just throw all the console crap away and make a fantastic port in the last few days of development ?
Ah, the crux of the matter. Goldarn goddamn consolitis!
I don't really give two whittled nubs of a fuck whether the game makes the hardcore PC fanbase embrace it or not. I started gaming on the PC 15 years ago, and while the PC will always be my platform of choice, I'm not writing off a game because it happens to be appearing on three different platforms at once. I happen to enjoy a good game regardless of
where it might appear on.
Quote:
They won't abandon the switches to 3rd person in favor of leaning and more control over the character. It just won't happen, because it never happens. Switches to 3rd person and one button auto-kill are in the game, it's a fact, you can see it right there on the video. And it's not going away, because it's popular and trendy in recent games.
That alone is more than enough for me to consider the game a complete failure. This is Deus Ex we're talking about, not Gears of War. DX was the most amazing immersive experience I've ever had in my life. This just looks like "generic action game n°515654". I'm expecting way more from a franchise like this.
And like Papy, I couldn't care less if it's commercially successful or not (the developers shouldn't care either). I just want to play a game which is an improvement over the original not something dumbed down for the masses.
But we all know it will be a huge success anyway. It will probably be considered like a huge revolution in gaming. Will that make it easier for a true DX spiritual successor to be made ? Of course not. They'll just continue in the same direction, stripping it even more of it's complex features to make it more like a shooter. Just look at Bioshock 2. Was it closer to System Shock 2 than Bioshock 1 ? Of course not.
I fail to see how optional takedowns and third-person camera pullback can dramatically change your opinion of the game to 'generic action shooter crap'. Yes, a pure FPP is more realistic and immersive and allows for realistic stealth, but I can live with a hybrid scheme - it's not exactly uncommon any more. If you can't, that's your loss.
ZylonBane on 24/6/2010 at 15:57
Quote Posted by Sulphur
I fail to see how optional takedowns and third-person camera pullback can dramatically change your opinion of the game to 'generic action shooter crap'.
Because these design decisions aren't made in a vacuum. They are necessarily indicative of the overall design philosophy being applied to the game. And that design philosophy is shaping up to be, "Make it cool for the console tards".
Eldron on 24/6/2010 at 16:29
zylonbane, newsflash here: games have worked hard to look "cool" long before console gaming became the forefront of the games industry.
Now, lets take one of the more sophisticated gaming experiences available out there:
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uR8pcqV_HY)
Now, no matter how awesome this is, can you say to me: "they didn't make this intro with a goal to have it look cool, the main character wasn't supposed to look cool"
