PigLick on 13/6/2020 at 08:32
Quote Posted by Nicker
On the other-other hand, reserves are often places of crushing poverty where basic housing, water and food are at third world levels and diseases which are extinct in European populations, still ravage the inhabitants.
.
this is happening in Australia as well, and even though the government and charities spend millions of dollars on this issue, nothing changes, and its not the indigenous communities fault either. So where is all this money really going?
Jeshibu on 13/6/2020 at 10:13
Quote Posted by Pyrian
How can we expect to take down war criminals if we can't even take down the statues celebrating war criminals? You're claiming that we can't do the former
because we're doing the latter instead, but I think it's more likely that we can't accomplish the former
unless we can first accomplish the latter.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
I don't think taking an episode of Fawlty Towers offline is the first step on the path of getting GW Bush or Kissinger to the ICC in The Hague. I also don't think it will prevent an innocent African-American being shot by a policeman next week or next month.
Again, I'm not against some/most of the stuff that's happening. I'm just stating that there is a lot of fluff action and a lot of noise, and it's not really gonna change much. Too much focus on words and things that are not the core of the problem. It risks people polarizing more.
No, you're not against it, just complaining loudly about it. Also nice of you to reframe Pyrian's argument as something else in order to rebut it.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Let's hope Trump will lose the next elections. At least then all the current events will have lead to something concrete.
Biden is the least bad out of a horrible choice. Trump needs to lose, but Biden will at best try to return to pre-Trump policy. That's not good enough. Let's not do it.
Oh, and (
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53032895) Fawlty Towers is going back up soon, so all of that was moot.
Gryzemuis on 13/6/2020 at 11:13
Quote Posted by Jeshibu
Oh, and Fawlty Towers is going back up soon, so all of that was moot.
No. The way I see this, people who called the BBC's action bullshit, were correct. And the BBC has now agreed with that.
Jeshibu on 13/6/2020 at 12:09
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
Not good enough ? There is a choice: Trump or Biden. If Biden is not good enough, what do you suggest ? 4 More years of Trump ?
That was a jab at your logic that any action that doesn't deliver us into blissful utopia isn't worth it. You will reply of course that that's not how you feel, and then struggle to find an actual reason to keep statues of horrible people up in public. Something about "focus" or "energy spent" probably. Spare me.
Quote Posted by Gryzemuis
If I see bullshit, I call it bullshit. Normally I stay out of these discussions. But this is a discussion-board, so I decided to post. I don't agree with everything Icemann was saying, but he was attacked a bit unfairly, imho.
Here, again, a reframe. I wasn't talking about icemann. You are so far and comfortably up your own ass that you can't even recall what daylight looks like.
You say you're more left than most and then proceed to spend a lot of your forum time trashing the most significant left-wing movement in decades.
You say you want the Kissingers of the world locked up but mostly shout from the rooftops that slavers shouldn't have their statues torn down and that it's all political correctness run rampant.
Maybe you are an activist in real life, but you sure aren't online.
Kolya on 13/6/2020 at 14:09
Quote Posted by heywood
Language is fluid. It's constantly changing. Terms that were formerly acceptable are not anymore.
Interestingly only the terms that refer to disadvantaged groups keep on declining. In German there's a whole row of once acceptable/honorific titles for women that are now considered inappropriate. [(
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorativum#Paradebeispiel:_Bedeutungsverschlechterung_von_Frauenbezeichnungen) wiki].
Meanwhile terms that refer to men did not decline in their honourable meaning.
I think as these groups struggle for acceptance and redefinition of themselves, they (and others) come up with new names, to distinguish them from their older more oppressed generation and group identity.
While it may have been fine for uncle Tom to call him a "nigger" (or at least he had bigger problems), he was still oppressed. And his children who gained some more freedom therefore opposed that term and arrived at "colored". And their children etc.
I'm just saying this to make it understandable why some groups keep coming up with new names for themselves and why it's important to them and why a Kartoffel like myself would be courteous to use them, even if it can be a bit annoying.
Of course the usual rules of language development still apply. The main one being that speech efficiency beats any language politics. Talking is hard work! So no double renamings within the same generation and keep it short and simple. (Or at least fun, habibi.)
PigLick on 13/6/2020 at 14:56
well , nice to see racism gets some old worms out of the woodwork
Gryzemuis on 13/6/2020 at 14:59
All you do, Jeshibu, is put words in my mouth. Stuff I have never said. Probably because you don't see the nuance. (Example, I have never said *anything* negative about BLM. I just don't see the point of tearing down a statue of Churchill. I do support their effort of getting whole police departments fired. That's gonna turn out in a huge mess. But it might actually achieve something). Anyway, I'm done with your aggressive style. Bye bye.
Kolya on 13/6/2020 at 15:11
Quote Posted by PigLick
well , nice to see racism gets some old worms out of the woodwork
I came here because icemann is a friend and he talked about how bad he felt, both about how he was treated and how he had acted himself. But all I heard was
"There's a huge flaming pile of shit on TTLG!" So I immediately coptered in to drop my load.
Also I was promised screen art.
Kolya on 13/6/2020 at 16:33
Who would have thought, shit really is different down there. Probably because you're all descended of scallywags. :D
And now: Screen art.
Sulphur on 13/6/2020 at 16:57
Quote Posted by icemann
Thank you Kolya. Appreciated immensely :).
And as I was asked elsewhere to include this (as I uncovered it in my research for one of the terms in commonplace in my country that I alluded to earlier):
(
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/13/australia.andrewclark)
Gives much context, and covers the origins of the slang word in question, it's use elsewhere vs it's common use here.
From your article: 'Some time during the 80s, the word was adopted as a badge of pride by the people to whom it referred - in the same way that, say, "queer" has been reclaimed by the gay community - which took the offensive sting out of it.'
It's not like we haven't already spoken about it. If the work to defang the term was up to the people who were called it, you don't get to prop it up as an example of non-racism.
