FastGarrett on 16/11/2019 at 16:34
Hey guys.
I'm so impressed that so many excellent level designers create such astounding fan levels for a game that got released 20 years ago.
I am studying for a master’s degree and I'm currently writing a scientific paper about the dark engine, dromed and why creators still make games with it.
I'm fascinated by the game too, but I can't describe what it is in particular, why I rather play thief, compared to modern (stealth) games.
What does Thief (Dark Project and Metal Age) offer, that modern games don't?
What is it for you. Why do you still love playing it?
Dromed has a steep learning curve and is difficult to master (at least from my perspective).
Why do you still create levels for it?
I would be very grateful if you could answer some of those questions. I would also like to include it in my scientific paper if you agree with it.
For a more in-depth discussion, feel free to contact me directly:
[email]alexander.johr@gmail.com[/email]
Thank you guys!
Basso The Boxman on 16/11/2019 at 17:05
While I wish I had the skills to create levels, I can honestly say that there is just something about these games that never gets old. As you posted this, I realized that I have been playing Thief for more than half my life. I am 35 and started playing it when it first came out. I never get tired of it. And everytime a new mission comes out, I can’t wait to start playing it. I just have a feeling that when I’m 70 I’ll still he playing it lol. A true masterwork that will never be duplicated. Can’t wait for the Thief 2 20th anniversary missions to come out!!!
Psych0sis on 16/11/2019 at 17:40
All FMs are good because they exist, and adding more to the pile is always a good thing to do :angel:
nicked on 16/11/2019 at 17:42
Many, many reasons...
* Dromed may have a learning curve, but it's not as steep as it may appear from an outside perspective, and it's countered in the sheer flexibility. Thief is perhaps the only immersive sim to feature a level editor with the amount of flexibility and control Dromed allows.
* The game design lends itself very well to small, contained gaming/story experiences - designing a mansion in Thief with ~1 hour's gameplay is a far easier task than, say, building an hour's worth of content in a linear first person shooter.
* It has a backdrop/setting constructed from a wide variety of broad archetypes, giving a solid foundation to allow authors to tell almost any kind of story they want to.
* The game's 1998 graphics and wide existing pool of object and texture resources means that creating something with the visual fidelity of the original game is very easy. Even if an easy-to-use level editor was released for, let's say, Dishonored, the skill level required to match the visual fidelity of the base game would be far higher.
* The systemic design of Thief allows mission authors to easily make almost any changes they want to the objects and systems of the game, without any requirement for complex scripting.
* It's got a very good ratio between low barrier to entry and high level of freedom, making it still a very valid choice for someone wanting to tell an interactive story. Compare the learning curve of Dromed to the learning curve required to produce a gameplay experience of matching quality in any other engine or game dev platform and you'll soon find that Dromed is way, way easier.
* The community is welcoming, inclusive and supportive in ways that a lot of games' communities aren't. There's a collaborative spirit that leads to things like the community's shared pool of custom level design resources.
* The game itself has a strong atmosphere, a surreality, and a complexity of setting and story that are very rare in modern AAA games.
* The game has very simple gameplay rules; all of its systems are easily understandable and accessible and are tutorialised well in the original games, meaning the game is more accessible to new players that many other games from the same time period. Even compared to similar games, it has very simple rules - there's no convoluted RPG elements to figure out for example.
Ghostly on 16/11/2019 at 17:47
Fundamentally the same reason why I grew to love these games in first place, it does not feel like a game but rather like an experience in 3D formate, where you look through the lenses of a character where you quickly forget and feel like its you in the game, the minimalistic approach to user interface improves the sense of immersion it lends you into that it quickly gets unforgettable.
With its steep learning curve comes naturally because you as the user have to learn the skill of navigating this world created by DromEd, it's like an engine that simulates real life properties into a game context nt a believable way for me personally, modern games feel too gamey for me and less simulated.
uncadonego on 16/11/2019 at 18:29
Quote Posted by FastGarrett
Dromed has a steep learning curve and is difficult to master (at least from my perspective).
Why do you still create levels for it?
Two reasons.
I am an
idiot, and I am a glutton for punishment.
zajazd on 16/11/2019 at 19:21
Quote Posted by nicked
The game design lends itself very well to small, contained gaming/story experiences - designing a mansion in Thief with ~1 hour's gameplay is a far easier task than, say, building an hour's worth of content in a linear first person shooter.
Damn straight, I never thought about this. It must be the main reason why Unreal is almost dead and had many fan campaigns started and never finished. It's a shame, I was waiting for a campaign called The Chosen One for years and years, the authors were promising RPG elements.
ZylonBane on 16/11/2019 at 23:21
Quote Posted by Psych0sis
All FMs are good because they exist...
This is some hippy-dippy bullshit right here.
fortuni on 17/11/2019 at 11:08
Psych0sis is right and ZB is being ZB as usual.
All FM's are good because they exist. Thief having been around for 20 years, 1000+ FM's and 100's of authors. Of course not every mission is going to be a gem, with such a collection of missions some are going to be turkeys whilst others will be staggeringly good, thankfully we have been blessed in recent years of having a small army of really talented author who keep producing top quality missions.
Psych0sis point is clearly demonstrated by the number of entries for the T1 20th anniversary contest, which was very much the better because there were a number of lesser quality missions.
Roll on the T2 anniversary, I welcome all entries regardless of standard.
DarkMax on 17/11/2019 at 13:15
Quote Posted by Psych0sis
All FMs are good because they exist, and adding more to the pile is always a good thing to do :angel:
I agree 100%. If we didn't have bad FMs, we wouldn't distinguish between utter trash from work where real effort and dedication exist. Every FM serves its purpose, all go to heaven :angel: