lowenz on 25/2/2022 at 09:07
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Hm, to believe what I see on BBC News or Russian social media propaganda. I am so conflicted.
Believe that is NOT and "invasion" but a "military occupation" so the Ukraine will become a protectorate of Russia Federation.
Like Iraq for USA and UK.
lowenz on 25/2/2022 at 09:11
We all know that Putin is smart.
Problem is, he's a tyrant too backing Gazprom interests all over the world.
lowenz on 25/2/2022 at 11:25
Waiting for "de-debunkers" to proclaim "
It's a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!!1111 There's no war!!!!1111 False flag!!!111111"
Starker on 25/2/2022 at 11:48
Well, they'll have their work cut out for them, as it was livestreamed by one of the coast guards up until their last moment.
Nicker on 25/2/2022 at 13:31
Quote Posted by Tocky
Hmmm sanctions or WWIII... so hard to decide. You convinced me. Nuclear winter it is.
How about expel them from Swift and sanction Putin personally. Their stock market is down by 45%. Let's keep it that way.
History teaches us that appeasing bullies has a down side, especially when the population is punished by sanctions.
Also sanctions will have a huge effect on people who don't even know their needs are integrated into the Russian economy and supply chains.
Whether those pains are enough to stop Putin, we don't know. He is sick in the head. I think he would understand a gesture like increasing NATO presence on the opposite border of Ukraine. Certainly he got permission to act based on how quickly NATO and the UN abandoned the military option and leaving Ukraine to be picked off with impunity. It also signals that his imperialist strategy is worth the risk, because there is little down side for him personally.
And that's the key, this isn't a nation to nation fight. Like T***p, it's all about Vlad.
NATO and the UN are also about meeting force with force, in repelling aggressive war, to prevent tyrants from getting a foothold, to discourage their ambitions and to protect civilians. NATO and the UN have arguably failed to do the very thing they were designed and intended to do. To respond with force to illegal war.
lowenz on 25/2/2022 at 13:40
You can't stop crazy people saying "FAKE" with ANY kind of document. That's the main problem in the world today.
lowenz on 25/2/2022 at 13:44
Quote Posted by Nicker
To respond with force to illegal war.
It's impossibile now that "souverainism" have infected all the world as the new image of old National Socialism. Here in Italy a good number of italians are just EXALTED by Putin as a new Mussolini-like "liberator figure" fighiting "U$A" and "EU" - comically seen as the new URSS - power for the good.
People are sold by the 10-years long Putin propaganda all over european nationalists (as they see Ukraine as an USA pawn so they're happy with the military occupation as a "liberation" act).
WingedKagouti on 25/2/2022 at 14:20
Quote Posted by Nicker
NATO and the UN are also about meeting force with force, in repelling aggressive war, to prevent tyrants from getting a foothold, to discourage their ambitions and to protect civilians. NATO and the UN have arguably failed to do the very thing they were designed and intended to do. To respond with force to illegal war.
NATO is a
purely defensive alliance originally established to protect the member nations (primarily Western Europe) from the USSR during the Cold War. One of the main reasons Putin pushed forward now was that Ukraine had actively been seeking membership in NATO for several years, which meant that he would have faced all the member nations if Ukraine was attacked after they had been accepted as a NATO member.
The UN is so ineffective because US, Russia and China are all permanent members of the UN Security Council and the Security Council needs a unanimous vote to take any major UN action. And it shouldn't take much thought to see why Russian would vote against any UN action against them. One could argue that the real purpose of the UN (at least in the eyes of those three) is to prevent a fourth major power from gaining a foothold.