lowenz on 2/4/2022 at 16:32
We got some geniuses at work in Moscow......
Cipheron on 3/4/2022 at 04:20
Quote Posted by lowenz
We got some geniuses at work in Moscow......
Yeah, and I was thinking that Ukraine might have captured Russian military equipment, but how are they going to maintain it. turns out, Ukraine owns the factories ...
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Also in today's news, shocking photographs from areas around Kyiv which the Russians ran away from. The photos here are blurred so as not to be too disturbing:
(
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/bodies-litter-the-streets-as-russian-forces-pull-back-from-kyiv/news-story/21f6975934a938b839f2d12951587f3b)
Quote:
Ukrainian troops have regained control of the entire region around their capital city, Kyiv, but their victory has been marred by the gut-wrenching scenes left behind in towns previously occupied by Russia.
[...]
Horrifying images have emerged showing bodies lining the streets of Bucha, with all the victims appearing to be dressed in civilian clothing,
“All these people were shot, killed, in the back of the head,” Mayor Anatoly Fedoruk told AFP.
Mr Fedoruk said a further 280 victims has already been buried in mass graves across the town
The mayor also told Al Jazeera that it had not been possible to collect a further 22 bodies strewn across the street due to fears Russian soldiers may have booby-trapped the corpses with mines.
Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhaylo Podolyak shared graphic images of civilians laying dead in the streets of Bucha with their hands tied behind their backs.
“These people were not in the military. They had no weapons. They posed no threat. How many more such cases are happening right now in the occupied territories?” he wrote.
Illia Ponomarenko, a defence reporter with The Kyiv Independent, confirmed people had been “executed” in Bucha.
There are photos of three men with their hands tied behind their backs and shot in the head.
And this one:
Quote:
Four doors down from Ms Dabizhe's house, her neighbours were found dead, their hands and feet bound together.
Further down the road, the mutilated bodies of 18 men, women and children were found in a basement, according to territorial defence fighters.
Witness reports have also emerged of
children being used as human shields by Russian soldiers to cover their retreat from areas surrounding Kyiv.
...
“Russian soldiers have used Ukrainian children as hostages, putting them on their trucks. They're doing it to protect their vehicles when moving,” he told The Guardian.
Starker on 3/4/2022 at 06:53
Well, it's only a short step from "Ukrainians don't have the right to exist" to this.
faetal on 3/4/2022 at 16:24
This is completely horrific.
What the fuck is their plan here?
Azaran on 3/4/2022 at 16:33
Quote Posted by faetal
This is completely horrific.
What the fuck is their plan here?
Use terror to enforce submission.
Stalin: the Sequel
Starker on 3/4/2022 at 19:00
There doesn't seem to be any goal apart from turning Ukraine into a wasteland. We're gonna need to Marshall plan the heck out of Ukraine once this is over.
Pyrian on 3/4/2022 at 19:39
Quote Posted by Azaran
Use terror to enforce submission.
Yeah, like most analysts, they were expecting a quick conquest followed by an insurrection, and they were planning to stomp
that out ruthlessly.
lowenz on 3/4/2022 at 20:20
Quote Posted by faetal
What the fuck is their plan here?
Imitat.....pardon,
liberate from nazis......
Tocky on 4/4/2022 at 02:22
When you have 90% of the Russian people supporting Putin in spite of the horror of raping and burning four Ukrainian women in the middle of the street then there are no limits.
I'm still ashamed the US did not allow the Polish Migs to take off from our base. We finally have a democracy to defend, one where the people WANT it, and are too war weary and just plain chickenshit to do so. Maybe in addition to a Marshal plan there should be one to arm the holy crap out of them to prevent this happening again no matter what threats Putin makes. As we see he attacks anyway so why not?
demagogue on 4/4/2022 at 02:24
I don't know the facts, but it strikes me as the Russian soldiers are demoralized and frustrated by their lack of progress, support, or direction-- plus when civilians get involved in the fighting, which is what happens when a war transitions into insurgency, then they get really paranoid -- the whole thing starts incubating a culture that's tolerating and then even prompting atrocities.
In my book on the Afghanistan war, there was a line the US military crossed like that at some point too, or at least the US was a little too easily hoodwinked about who was a "terrorist" and what treatment they deserved. So I think it's even part of the standard psychology of war in certain contexts.
All of this is subject to me researching more about it though.
Edit: I mean in the Russian case it's too transparently in war crime territory when you're literally binding transparently non-combatants up for execution out in the open. (The US at least took young men with a vague possibility to be combatants to hidden locations for their atrocities, and sheltered their proxies committing them against the women & children, & later denied everything.) It's more like what I'm reading about happening in Myanmar, where the military SOP, oversight, & justice system is just dysfunctional & rotten to the core.
