lowenz on 17/2/2024 at 16:41
That's not a direct order to "kill" from Putin, it would be totally stupid: that's what I'm talking about.
DuatDweller on 17/2/2024 at 17:00
Putin this, Putin that, but nobody ever asked what are we gonna do with all that Putin.
100 arrests (some places even say 200) in Russia due to protests in several cities (at least in 8 cities).
Quote:
"He was always with us, so it is all surreal," said Lyusya Shtein, 26, a Pussy Riot activist who has lived in Vilnius since leaving Russia in 2022.
lowenz on 17/2/2024 at 17:43
Quote Posted by DuatDweller
Putin this, Putin that, but nobody ever asked what are we gonna do with all that Putin.
Nothing 'cause of nuclear warheads :v (and the fear to "import" war, 'cause in "West" Europe we are really spoiled and that's the only real weakness, but it's a disruptive weakness undermining every real weight of the Europe states - and EU - in front of Russia).
Starker on 17/2/2024 at 17:56
If Putin doesn't give a direct order, then he gives a very clear indirect one to someone who in turn gives a very direct and specific one. Highly complex assassination plots we have seen coming from Russia (with fake passports and extremely dangerous chemicals and radioactive materials and whatnot) don't just happen by "nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more!" Life is not an Austin Powers parody.
lowenz on 17/2/2024 at 19:12
I don't say that, I'm saying they're "special operations" by FSB/GRU groups acting in "limited" autonomy to "please" the system, exactly like the media. There's no direct "chain of command" in military fashion, it's why I'm saying "proactive".
"There's a problem, please go on, we just want the problem gone, we're not interested in the details, it's why we give you discretion" (Putin level)
Hierarchy can be totally indirect. We're talking about russians, not germans :p
DuatDweller on 17/2/2024 at 19:15
Great, now Navalny's body goes missing, no corpse no autopsy and definitely no proof of poisoning or other chemical agents.
Wanna bet they'll cremate the body and deliver just the ashes to the family?
(
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/02/18/body-missing-after-kremlin-foe-navalny-murdered-spokesperson/)
Quote:
Prison officials told his mother when she arrived at the penal colony that her son had perished from "sudden death syndrome", Ivan Zhdanov, the director of Navalny's Anti-Corruption Foundation, wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter.
A prison colony employee said the body was taken to the nearby city of Salekhard as part of a post-mortem investigation, Yarmysh said.
When Navalny's mother and one of the late politician's lawyers visited the morgue in Salekhard, it was closed, Navalny's team wrote on its Telegram channel. But the lawyer called the morgue and was told the body was not there, his team said.
lowenz on 17/2/2024 at 20:40
No body=no martyr, that's more important than any possible (how? you can't make the body go out of Russia) autopsy
DuatDweller on 18/2/2024 at 00:49
There are a lot of things that can kill you, certain medicines that cannot be detected, only you can deduce from the effects what they used, but sometimes not all.
Just add X substance to the food and the dude/dudette is over.
Starker on 18/2/2024 at 02:28
Quote Posted by lowenz
I don't say that, I'm saying they're "special operations" by FSB/GRU groups acting in "limited" autonomy to "please" the system, exactly like the media. There's no direct "chain of command" in military fashion, it's why I'm saying "proactive".
"
There's a problem, please go on, we just want the problem gone, we're not interested in the details, it's why we give you discretion" (Putin level)
Hierarchy can be totally indirect. We're talking about russians, not germans :p
Within that particular realm, there are things where you cannot allow autonomy/discretion in the way the media works, because some things are simply too crucial to be left up to chance/interpretation. And another reason is that Putin comes from that environment and he cannot allow in any shape or form the rise of another Putin from that system. If there's any part of Russian state that is closely controlled and monitored, then it's the security apparatus. It's the one part of the state that Putin knows best and fears the most.
Obviously, Putin doesn't micromanage the security apparatus and there are competing factions within to sow chaos and whatnot, but when it comes to high-profile cases like Prigozhin, you bet nothing happens without his approval. And it's not like he has to walk around wistfully and sigh loudly, "Would someone rid me of that troublesome activist / PMC commander?" or that people in the security apparatus just one day decide try to kill some activist or other to please him. Now that would be silly. And extremely counterproductive. Some people are more powerful dead than they were alive and disposing them needs very careful management and tarnishing of their reputation. The decision whether to kill someone or try to get kompromat on them or plant false evidence and prosecute them instead cannot be left up to autonomous groups, however limited the autonomy is. Think about it this way: would Putin really allow any one group to have the initiative to shoot down a plane in Russian airspace?
Furthermore, something like this cannot catch the authorities off guard. They have to be ready to head off any potential protests and be ready to present "their side of things". In the case of both Navalny and Prigozhin they were relatively efficient and organised in how they handled these situations, which can be seen how quickly the ambulance / rescuers arrived, how fast statements were put up, etc.
lowenz on 18/2/2024 at 08:04
Quote Posted by Starker
Think about it this way: would Putin really allow any one group to have the initiative to shoot down a plane in Russian airspace?
If this guy and long time friend of Putin approves, yes: (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Patrushev)
