RPS preview and new images. [August] - by Ostriig
ZylonBane on 6/8/2010 at 20:26
For the love of god, nobody respond to him.
Papy on 6/8/2010 at 21:50
Please, could you add my name on your ignore list?
Yakoob on 8/8/2010 at 00:54
Quote Posted by DDL
I always thought the 'combat being shit' was kinda the point? If you wanted to be a deathdealing unreal tournament JC, you needed to build your skills and augs toward that..but it was neither necessary nor even optimal.
Problem is, it wasn't a "this is realistic" kind of a shit, but rather "we dont know how to make good shooting mechanics" kind of shit.
SubJeff on 8/8/2010 at 23:49
Yeah, the AI in combat was messed up. That running backwards nonsense and the magic "I know you used a silenced sniper but we all know exactly where you are now." rubbish took the biscuit. It almost wrecked being a stealthy killer an made me play in a game-ish way, which you could arguably call exploiting, rather than the way it should have been.
Papy on 9/8/2010 at 02:56
I agree there was some minor problems, for example with the laser sight, but abusing the stupid AI was not an exploit, it was the gameplay. What would you have done instead? Have the NPCs go into an intelligent search and destroy mode for a full hour as soon as they suspect someone is there? Considering a single bullet could kill you, the result would have always been the same : death and reload. Do you really think that would have made a better game?
To be very simplistic, Deus Ex was not a great game despite the stupid AI, it was a great game because of the stupid AI.
SubJeff on 9/8/2010 at 18:05
Don't try to strawman me. I'd have preferred the AI to act more intelligently is all. Even the marines in Half Life one responded better, never mind the AI in Thief. You may have enjoyed playing against retarded AI but that says more about you than about anyone else.
DDL on 9/8/2010 at 19:01
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Don't try to strawman me. I'd have preferred the AI to act more intelligently is all. Even the marines in Half Life one responded better, never mind the AI in Thief. You may have enjoyed playing against retarded AI but that says more about you than about anyone else.
The marines in HL were admittedly tasked with slightly more refined actions: appear, try to kill gordon, die. They didn't have to patrol for extended lengths of time, or wander round a marketplace, or walk into an office and sit down.
DX's AI is capable of a much greater repertoire of activities, but as a result is less good at..well, almost all of them.
Ostriig on 9/8/2010 at 22:36
But that's not really a counterargument, no one's questioning the effort that ISA put into DX's AI or its complexity. The issue put forward is that while the AI worked well enough for its purposes, there was also room for better in certain of its facets. Spector himself admitted ((
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3114/postmortem_ion_storms_deus_ex.php?page=4) scroll to section 3) that the intricacy of the AI was a challenge and that its initial development plan didn't effectively contain the full scope and particularities of the task, and that took its toll.
DDL on 9/8/2010 at 22:40
True.
I guess the gripe here is that the methods they are likely to use to "make the combat better" are probably not going to be along the lines of "like the DX AI, only better".
Also, fwiw, coding AI for DX is fucking hard (I hate statecode).
SubJeff on 11/8/2010 at 17:05
This is ridiculous. Why would they not be able to make AI that is like that in DX but better? Why on Earth can you not have AI that is capable of both conversation/interaction and combat? It can be done and that is no reason it won't happen here.
