jtr7 on 5/4/2013 at 04:30
Less zombies for Dia, and maybe improved head-bob options, but can we enjoy never hearing the word "Taffer" and hearing real cursing instead? :sweat:
Fafhrd on 5/4/2013 at 06:02
Quote Posted by thiefessa
Sure, but if one wanted to rant on to people (and even attack people with another view) about how much one really hates something and how crap its going to be; then one must truly hate it and believe in what one says?
I don't see the point of the ranting otherwise. :confused:
So the idea of liking an experience as an overall whole, but disliking certain elements of that experience is completely alien to you? I happened to like DX:HR quite a bit. I'd almost go so far as saying that I loved it. But I did feel that the switch to third person when using cover or doing takedowns was a bad design decision (and the idea that you could 'just not use cover' is ridiculous, as there are movement options that are key to playing stealthily that are only available when attached to cover). Ultimately I didn't feel it ruined the experience because the perspective is a less fundamental part of the core design philosophy of a Deus Ex title than player choice and a conspiracy filled storyline is.
With Thief, however, a consistent first person perspective
is very much part of the core design,
precisely because it is limiting. You have to listen to where guards are as much as (if not more than) you look. You have to weigh the risk of making yourself vulnerable by climbing up a ladder or a rope that is well lit and has a guard that might walk past. Pulling into third person to give the player a better idea of their surroundings is a design decision intended to empower the player in a game that is, at it's core, very much about
dis-empowering the player (at least in the ways that most players are used to being empowered). 'Focus' is another one.
Take out Focus and take out any third person, and this sounds like exactly the kind of the Thief game that I've been wanting for years now.
With those two features, the core is fundamentally altered. Maybe not
significantly altered, but enough that it sounds like it's going to occupy some uncanny valley of Thiefness.
(And the justification for third person is so transparently bollocks, anyway. There have been more than enough games with significant climbing components that have retained a first person perspective throughout without people complaining about not knowing where they are in relation to the environment).
Bakerman on 5/4/2013 at 06:13
I know these are from page 1, but nobody seemed to respond.
Quote Posted by Dia
'
The level design in The Metal Age had more focus, more thievery and possibilities for avoidance of conflict.' So I guess ghosting is out of the question?
IIRC he was comparing TMA to TDP at that point, not to new Thief. And then goes on to say that new Thief is more inspired by TMA.
Quote Posted by Dia
'
When he isn't wielding a weapon or examining loot, the hands interact with the environment, gripping corners as he leans, brushing against walls and tables as he passes. It's an effective spatial tool and helps make his body, which physically exists rather than being a floating camera, an active part of the environment.' Is all of this spatial-tool-interaction in the third-person then? Am I interpreting incorrectly that if Garrett isn't 'wielding a weapon or examining loot' you'll automatically be booted into third-person? Would also be great if they made that optional.
No, it's first-person. There's a screenshot with Garrett's hand on a curtain or something similar. I'm really looking forward to seeing how far they go with the FP body awareness.
henke on 5/4/2013 at 06:51
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Can I ask. Only, details aside, I quite liked DE:HR. But honestly I found it almost completely forgettable. It was okay enough while I played through but none of the environments, characters, tools or gameplay sequences were inspiring or strong enough to really stick in my mind especially.
What was your take there?
Oh yes I'd agree with that. I can't recall any of the areas in DX:HR as clearly as the UNATCO headquarters, Hell's Kitchen, or Battery Park from the first game. (though honestly I've played through DX three times and DXHR only once, so that defenitely factors in) But what I was talking about when I said that DXHR not only felt like a good game but a
good Deus Ex game is that, as I was walking through the streets of Detroit I felt a sensation I hadn't felt since walking around in Deus Ex's Hell's Kitchen. I can't quite explain it, it just had that certain je ne sais quoi. I dare not hope for a similar miracle from Thief, but I'm hoping that it'll at least be a good stealth game.
jtr7 on 5/4/2013 at 07:37
That's part of what I mean when I'm talking fast-food gaming. It's not as good as it tastes, not as good for you, takes your future down a notch even if you can't tell now, and as much as you crave it, you can never get enough if you try to appease the craving, and it's not that remarkable when the hunger has faded temporarily. Instead of wanting more of it, you say you want something else, but really want a lot of the same, repackaged "New Look! Same Great Taste!" The only reason for games to ditch trying to be timeless is how fast the tech becomes obsolete. Out of nearly all entertainment media, only video games force people to stop enjoying it for lack of a system to run it, or design games to be played for a little while and easily forgotten, with no wish to return, happy for the next large expense for temporary results. No flash-in-the-pan gaming for me.
Vivian on 5/4/2013 at 08:00
@jtr7
No one has ever made disposable books, music or films? Have you seen Tremors? Basically, you are Kevin Bacons attitude towards women in Tremors.
Vae on 5/4/2013 at 08:10
Quote:
Thief is played from a first-person perspective, although
the game will shift to third-person when Garrett scales walls or goes into combat....:(
Quote:
To this end, Garrett has been equipped with some impressive abilities, including being able to peek around corners or objects without being spotted,
and slow down hand-to-hand combat in order to pick specific parts of your enemy's body to target.
...:tsktsk:
Quote:
Garrett has Lara Croft's annoying habit of talking about what he's doing in such a way that
it spoils moments of discovery in favour of making sure you know exactly what to do....:grr:
Quote:
Garrett also digs out his old blackjack, useful for clobbering guards (either in the face during fights or on the back of the head to avoid them)
and this time it's going to be upgradeable, as will your Focus abilities....:mad:
Quote:
The new Thief makes obvious concessions to players who have been brought up on gaming in the nine years since Deadly Shadows - for instance,
when you're navigating narrow beams you will be guided along them automatically and dismounting will require you to press a button....
Inline Image:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Misc/Anger_Mad.gifQuote Posted by thiefessa
There certainly is a lot to like there. :cool:
...
Inline Image:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Misc/omg.gifNuth on 5/4/2013 at 09:03
Combat is going to be forced 3rd-person? Or is that just a rumor? 3rd-person climbing is bad enough. I detest that, but I might be willing to tolerate it. Forced 3rd-person combat means that I absolutely will not buy the game, even if everything else about the game is fantastic. Even bringing Stephen Russell back wouldn't persuade me to buy it.
Vae on 5/4/2013 at 09:10
Forced 3rd-person chain-attack-smack.
Quote Posted by Nuth
Even bringing Stephen Russell back wouldn't persuade me to buy it.
I hate to say it, but I was just thinking the same thing...(if true)
henke on 5/4/2013 at 09:12
Quote Posted by jtr7
No flash-in-the-pan gaming for me.
So you'll only play a game if it's good and long lasting enough that you can keep returning to it year after year?
Uh, ok. Those games are still being made, y'know. (Dark Souls, Frozen Synapse, and FTL spring to mind) But with game discounts being as plentiful as they are these days I don't feel any need to stick to those titles exclusively. I guess I'm something of a gameoholic (lol, that's gotta be one of the most stupid lines I've ever written) but I'll gladly play less-than-great but nonetheless entertaining games by the boatload.
