cyrosis on 4/4/2013 at 23:51
Quote Posted by Renzatic
They hate you. I mean not like in a general "you're a Thief fan and thus an enemy to us" sense, but as in actually you...personally. They're keeping third person in there simply to piss you off.
And you're ruining it for the rest of us.
Also they don't like Skacky, either.
I was truly afraid of that, and I apologize for allowing this personal feud EM and myself have had now taint the development of the new Thief game.
Renzatic on 4/4/2013 at 23:55
Yeah? You should be. Because of you, we're going to be playing a New Thief where the game keeps changing perspectives constantly. Just flick flick flick flick flick flick flick back and forth as you causally saunter down the street.
New Thief isn't a stealth game. It's one giant Dramamine advertisement. With jet fighters.
skacky on 4/4/2013 at 23:59
I'm trying to like the game, but EM doesn't allow me to. ;_;
Springheel on 5/4/2013 at 00:06
Quote:
Dynamic lighting. New Thief is doing what Thief 3 failed to accomplish, and TDM only partially succeeded at.
Only partially succeeded in what way? That lightning scenario that you describe could have come verbatim from a TDM mission. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that use lightning in just that way.
Quote:
when The Dark Mod came out, some of the language within kind of threw me a bit, it just seemed un-Thief for some reason. Talking about "whores" and "using guts for bootstraps" (and a few other things I can't remember right now) just felt out of place.
As you say, TDM is a darker and grittier setting than Thief (sounds like T4 is following us there, along with giving their thief a face-mask ;) ). Having said that, our goal was just to make people speak the way they would in real life, rather than artificially trying to avoid 'bad words', or constantly mugging for the camera like in TDS. (The "guts" line you mention is actually lifted from Pirates of the Caribbean, which is hardly adult). In real life, people swear. Rough and brutish people (as hired swords generally are) speak in rough and brutish ways.
Anyway, on to my thoughts on the article. Given some of the responses here I thought I was going to like it more than I did. Instead I found lines like:
Quote:
"Thief's greatest crime could be that it does not ‘borrow' enough from its predecessors,"
"it's disappointing to hear that the peculiar linguistic traits of The City have become a thing of the past"
"the slang and accents that ran through The City as strongly as mortar and water are perhaps being dismissed as something allusive and on the level of footnote or in-joke"
"The Focus ability may cause purists to squirm (I am one and I did)"
"Plucking the rings from somebody's ears is preposterously silly"
"Even if he is capable of slaughtering every guard in a level"
"The weirdness, that not-quite steampunk ahistorical off-kilter sensibility, was lacking."
"Garrett spends more time climbing than he has previously, which leads to the already-maligned third-person viewpoint when he attaches to a wall."
"Garrett's newfound agility and his collapsible bow ... will make him a less subtle knife in the dark at times,"
" But that ‘if' is very important. It's possible to play a game for an hour or two and to seize, or be offered, the wrong end of various sticks, and while I feel much more optimistic about this reboot than I did before seeing it in action, that's all that has happened."
So after seeing the best the development team has to offer over the course of any hour, he basically seems to be saying that he feels cautiously optimistic. The technology is awesome, and the gameplay might actually not be quite as bad as we feared. I had hoped for a bit more.
And the "Game On" article is even worse:
Quote:
That's the basis of stealth in the new Thief, and while it cleaves to the gameplay mechanics of the original games it also seems to rely heavily on dumb enemy AI.
Perhaps the coolest part of the demo was when Garrett went into a full sprint to reach his destination in time: the sprint morphed into a parkour sequence of sorts that was extremely reminiscent of Mirror's Edge.
For now, color me skeptical on whether Thief 4 can retain and improve upon what made the series important in the first place.
jtr7 on 5/4/2013 at 00:20
Dammit, I'm sorry TDM is getting crapped on, again. :tsktsk: You deserve so much better!
Renzatic on 5/4/2013 at 00:48
Quote Posted by Springheel
Only partially succeeded in what way? That lightning scenario that you describe could have come verbatim from a TDM mission. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that use lightning in just that way.
I meant to change that line a little bit. Though if you've all started using the dynamic lights a little more freely, I have nothing but props for you (admittedly it's been a bit since I last played TDM, and I haven't played it as much as I should yet).
Though I'll break down your complaint list a little bit, because I think you've interpreted a couple of things wrongly...
Quote:
"Thief’s greatest crime could be that it does not ‘borrow’ enough from its predecessors,"
"it’s disappointing to hear that the peculiar linguistic traits of The City have become a thing of the past"
"the slang and accents that ran through The City as strongly as mortar and water are perhaps being dismissed as something allusive and on the level of footnote or in-joke"
These three are true. I will miss the taffers and bear pits and everything else you'd overhear from the old Thiefs.
Quote:
"Plucking the rings from somebody’s ears is preposterously silly"
Matter of opinion really. The thought of Garrett being quick, smooth, and silent enough isn't well beyond the pale. I mean the guy can disappear in someone's shadow...
Quote:
"Even if he is capable of slaughtering every guard in a level"
You could do that in every previous Thief game. The matter isn't if you can or can't, it's how difficult it is to pull off. If it's too easy, EM dropped the ball.
Though I'm still hoping for an oldschool difficulty setting that requires you not to kill any guards whatsoever.
Quote:
"The weirdness, that not-quite steampunk ahistorical off-kilter sensibility, was lacking."
True. But we've only seen one very, very small part of the game so far. Who knows what the rest of the new City looks like.
Quote:
"Garrett spends more time climbing than he has previously, which leads to the already-maligned third-person viewpoint when he attaches to a wall."
Both a good and a bad. Good that he's climbing, it means the game might have some interesting level design. Bad that it switches to a 3rd person camera when he's attached to a wall. It won't bother me much, but I can understand why it'd bother some.
Quote:
"Garrett’s newfound agility and his collapsible bow ... will make him a less subtle knife in the dark at times,"
An agile Garrett is nothing but good news, so long as they don't go absolutely insane with it. And the collapsible bow bit, less subtle knife? I took that as meaning he's more easily spotted with his bow out, much like the old games.
Quote:
" But that ‘if’ is very important. It’s possible to play a game for an hour or two and to seize, or be offered, the wrong end of various sticks, and while I feel much more optimistic about this reboot than I did before seeing it in action, that’s all that has happened."
Total supposition. It's possible they could've shown him only the bits they thought he'd like as an old Thief fan. He doesn't have any proof of this, rather he's saying take everything he's taken with a grain of salt.
So far, I'm convinced it's gonna be interesting. A good stealth game surely. A good Thief game? That remains to be seen. But like the guy above, I'm feeling at least a little optimistic.
I want to see some gameplay videos next, though.
Quote Posted by jtr7
Dammit, I'm sorry TDM is getting crapped on, again. You deserve so much better!
Who crapped on TDM? When did this happen?
Renault on 5/4/2013 at 01:17
Yeah, unless he's joking (it's hard to tell sometimes), no one is "crapping on TDM." I just mentioned that when I initially started playing, the harsher language threw me a bit because there's none of that in Thief. I'm not criticizing at all, I'm a huge TDM fan.
pavlovscat on 5/4/2013 at 03:10
Unfortunately, I find ANY switching between 1P/3P extremely jarring, so even the minimal amount they are describing could be a huge problem. I never used it in TDS. I would prefer not to be forced to use it in the new game. Of course, I am a teeny, tiny, brain-damaged, disabled minority, so I don't really matter to their bottom line, do I? :p Obviously, I don't know how bad it will be, but past experience says it's a problem for me. Of course, I could just put a puke bucket by my chair & hurl as needed. That ought to add some excitement. :eww:
jtr7 on 5/4/2013 at 03:27
I think, even though they've rectified the worst of it and are even calling it a 1st-Person game (It'd be great if they had the huevos to call it a First-Person Sneaker and it was true!), the fact they thought switching back and forth to such a degree was kewl is reflective of their alien design approach spoiling several things already.
Dia on 5/4/2013 at 04:19
I'm with pav on this one. Last time I tried rapid switching between 1st/3rd person I got dizzy and before I knew it ... Game Over. Unless I'm playing Donkey Kong, I'll choose 1st person every time.
;)
:p
