242 on 12/9/2004 at 22:15

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Muzman: I just haven't seen Lost Highway yet, only read some reviews.

FenrisUlf on 3/10/2004 at 06:39

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:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I just came back from a co-thief player's house where he made me play this asylum level! I haven't played thief 3 much yet. OH MY GOD! I'm not going to be able to *(#@&%@#%^ sleep tonight! Several times I dropped the keyboard, jumped back out of the seat and walked to the other room (literally) to get away from the damn computer! With my friend in tow laughing his ass off).

That attic pounding....the girl's shadow....those fucking inmates. They are so creepy and so intelligent. Not predictable enemies like haunts and zombies. They come up to the edge of your vision as silhouettes, then just stop and stare at you til you get freaked out. Then they charge and slam you all psychotic like.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight!

Moriturus on 3/10/2004 at 23:26

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I just finished The Cradle last night and I have to say it is the BEST level I have ever played, in ANY game, period. I had gotten about halfway through a couple months ago, until it just got too freaky for me, and I had to put it down and play something more light and cheerful, like Doom3. (I'm not kidding; compared to The Cradle, Doom3 is kids' stuff.) I was about to complain that it's too easy to kill the inmates (and the staff, once in the "real" world), but I'm not playing on expert; that's for the second go-around. (Someone else said that the inmates keep getting up again, no matter how killed, but I found that flashbombs, holy water, mines and fire arrows finished them off permanently.) For those complaining about the ease of the level, just ditch all weaponry and items and ghost it on expert. If you need even more of a challenge, take the lockpick image off (the "tweaks" thread on this forum tells you how to do it) so you have to work the picks by "feel." I also started to get a bit grumpy about Lauryl's seemingly endless series of tasks, but in the end the fact that The Cradle seemed to be fighting back made perfect sense, when the consequences of freeing Lauryl became clear.

Several things made this level my favorite, even though it is very different from the normal Thief level:

1. The lack of enemies during the first first passage through the Outer Cradle is totally unnerving. You have to turn on the lights, which totally sucks because you've lost your greatest ally, darkness, and then you're sneaking around getting more and more paranoid until you come to the infamous "pounding door" room. Then you find out that there was nothing to be afraid of in there. By the time I got into the Inner Cradle, I had almost relaxed, figuring there weren't going to be a lot of enemies. Whoops! :eek: Time out to change some underwear . . .

2. I loved all of the little touches: the carefully-planned level design; the incredible detail in the various textures and surfaces in the level; subtle features and events (such as Lauryl disappearing from the painting after you clean up the blood, the lights flickering when a puppet is nearby and breathing at other times, and being able to look up and see sky in the short walkway you pass through if you descend into the Morgue from the ladder instead of the elevtor); the complex history behind the place and the various personalities that reveal themselves in the notes Garrett finds (the fact that The Cradle has taken on a life of its own starts becomes understandable after a while); the carefully-researched references to the actual horrors perpetuated in the name of "science" in treating the mentally ill in this real world, thus heightening the sense of horror; and of course the puppets themselves, the most terrifying enemy I have ever encountered in a game.

3. Some of the posters in this thread are mentioning things that I didn't see, even after thoroughly exploring The Cradle: Lauryl's "face" in the blue light, the "short figure" near the fountain with the water arrows, and the puppet supposedly walking in front of you at the Records Room when you first enter the Inner Cradle. It speaks volumes about this level that some people see things that others don't and that I, at least, started to question whether the things I was seeing and hearing in the level were actually in the game, or in my own imagination. :confused:

Null, you were asking about recommendations for ideas or inspirations. Until I played The Cradle, some of the most mind-fricking experiences I've had (aside from "Jacob's Ladder") were reading the novels of Philip K. Dick. His abilities to create a feeling of impending insanity, and to expose the fragility of "reality," used to sometimes leave me unable (or unwilling) to go to sleep at night. BTW, having the "info on the hag" objective at the end of the long room withe the patrolling staff member is NOT a "problem" with this level; the problem is with the players who are too freaked-out by the staff member to go back there. It takes a bit of timing and patience, but getting to the note and reading it is quite doable, and one of the tenets of the Thief series is to explore everywhere until you find your objective, because it's not always set out on the front counter with gift-wrapping and a bow. (I was actually a bit disappointed in the amount of additional information the note imparted about the hag, though. Considering the effort I went through, I wanted more about who or what she is and her relationship to The Cradle, even if it was in the form of additional teasers rather than an explanation.)

I know it's been said by many others here, but I have to add my voice to the chorus. Thanks, Null, for one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. :thumb: Now please excuse me, I have to go do a load of laundry . . .

Naartjie on 4/10/2004 at 14:35

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I was sort of disappointed by the Cradle...it's not in the same league as RTC. I was annoyed at the fact that there's only one way in...what use are climbing gloves if you can't use them in a level like this?

The lack of variety in the undead was also quite a shame. They really could have used the building's history as an asylum to greater effect. What can be more scary than the ghosts of the insane? Especially with all the 'toys' lying around. It would have been cool to see Lauryl (sp?) as the one single sane ghost trying to guide you out of there, much like Murus had been in T1. Instead all we got was a rather lame set of modified zombies (though they had their moments). That mission should have been crawling with undead...the success of RTC was partly based on the fact that the undead presence was so unrelenting. The Morgue was a huge disappointment. In the Cradle what we got was all the right ambience but a poor show in spite of it.

There was plenty of good stuff however...the lack of encounters in the outer cradle was very unnerving, (but crap for replay value) as was the knocking in the attic (spoiled by the 'New Note'...it should have been left ambiguous). The going into the past was excellent, though it should have looked better in the past, more plush surroundings, maybe a view of the patients etc.


So overall it was a good level, the best of DS so far, but not quite up there with RTC, LOTP or some of the other classics. Now I just have the museum and the endgame to play...

Morpheus on 5/10/2004 at 01:10

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If it had been "crawling with undead" it would have destroyed the atmosphere.