Mr. K. on 8/6/2004 at 00:48
Null: my congratulations on your "child" mission. ;)
I'm a GM and i'm used and interested in ways to tell stories and set moods for my players too, and while i didn't find the Cradle so tough to play at all (emotionally-wise) as other people there, i have to say it's a masterpiece of mood and suggestion.
I did expect to find a sobrenatural mission (an asylum? All asylums in videogames are freaky and spooky). However, the use of the colour (or lack thereof) is wonderful.
As a Thief level i didn't like having just one entry point, but again, that's the choice you have to do: give the player more freedom but have a weaker narrative or keep the player where you want him/her to be and throw a bright story at them? I think you made the right choice there, as there are enough levels with different entry points.
The first part of the mission not having any AIs is pure genius. Playing with suggestion is, if done properly, stronger and more personal than showing things. Each player can fill in the gaps in the game with their own twisted fears , making it a much more personal experience than imposing them your vision of the place. I was really sucked into the level until i got to the fuse door, when i heard the children noises as ambience and suddenly i popped out of the experience to think "hey! That's a cool effect i like!" to myself. From there on, i was very involved in the mission, but the sense of personal, REAL dread was over. This however enabled me to appretiate lots of subtle details you put in there that might have gone unnoticed otherwise.
The noises and the banging on the lounge and stairs up to the attic were driving me insane, though. You really hit the nail on the head there, i completed the whole rest of the zone before gathering guts to go upstairs, and when i did i was armed with a fire arrow and a flash bomb (and i am a ghoster, hardcore. If i alert an AI i restart). I wasn't risking my life there, even if that meant breaking the ghosting rules. And when i say "my life" i don't mean Garrett's. I mean *mine*. So sucked in the mood i was.
The inmates are quite nice, although the biggest complaint about the mission i have is they all look the same. You took considerable effort into individualizing them, giving them emotional and personal traits, and it'd have been awesome to have seen each of them and be able to recognize them, in their twisted bodies.
I just love the mood you set there, and while i was more scared in RTC, i think what you made should be made a sort of stand alone demo or something so every gamer, Thief fan or not, has a chance to experience it. A thing to be taught at narrative arts school.
I tip my hat off to you, Null. From a fellow story creator. The Cradle is, more than a story, an experience.
JMcSquiggle on 8/6/2004 at 00:54
Quote Posted by dr. cello
...Vancore, that is one of the coolest things I've ever read. I'll bet nobody else can say they've actually died to win a mission before. :thumb:
I can!!!! Many times in F-Zero GX, I would often crash my vehicle and the remains would roll over the finish lines. This only happened to me in the expert cups when I was boosting as quickly as possible to cross first, then nick a wall or another racer and roll through the finish line while the announcer yelled "broken down". Just wanted to add that.
This level freaked me out because of the fact that I couldn't kill the enimes...apparently I didn't try everything on them though. Freakiest moment for me was throwing my bottle of Holy water on one of the zombies only to have him to turn around and beat me into oblivion.
dr. cello on 8/6/2004 at 01:00
I'm now going to give Null due praise and such for the rich past that he created. I was actually more afraid of the mission when I thought there were no undead in it... no colour, sounds. The little notes lying around, from the staff. The staff sounds so inhuman, as if they're discussing lab animals or something.
...thanks for the wicked-grand level, Null.
Going into an actual, active insane asylum might make for a cool fan mission. I imagine it could still be creepy and unnerving, but on a more real level. I've always been a fan of scary on a real level. (One of the many reasons I disliked The Ring, is that it was obviously supernatural).
EDIT: Changed some poor wording...
The Rogue Wolf on 8/6/2004 at 02:29
Quote Posted by null
It is very fortunate (for the terror-incognita types) that even the first map was devoid of hostile AI. That's almost entirely unmarketable, these days, on a AAA action title.
I'm posting WAYYYY too much on this thread, but I had to say... Null, that's what made the level for me! I crept through the entire Outer Cradle, flinching at every odd sound (and more than flinching at that damn banging on the door!), and it was all suspense- the threat never materialized. By the time I got into the Inner Cradle, I was getting just a little bit relaxed, a little bit cocky... and almost strolled into a 'patient'. That's the ultimate payoff... string me along, let me start to relax from my own fears for just a second- and then put pure revolting evil almost up my nostrils. :cheeky:
EDIT: Almost forgot to brag... I played this in pitch darkness. At just a bit past midnight. ...hooooo. :eek:
Hylix Ulyx on 8/6/2004 at 02:31
The Cradle is Thief....Silent Hill style! :o
Kyote on 9/6/2004 at 04:03
My hat is off to you null. No level has ever scared me so bad and made me /need/ to stop playing so much, only to drag me back in out of sick, morbid curiousity and drive. The atmosphere was amazing and indescribable, you are really a talent and have created something to be truly proud of.
Brodieman on 9/6/2004 at 05:52
I can see null laughing like a maniac in horror movie screenings just as he probably was while desigining this mission.
It's downright unnerving the mission, i for one, like many here don't have a problem putting two and two together when little clues or just suggestions are left laying around as to what really happened in The Cradle. It's sinister and it really plays on your own imagination far too much to be comfortable. The "puppets" were terrifying for what they represented - the tormented souls who are unable to complete thier lives and are again "alive" at The Cradles request.
When i first played this level, there was thunder lightning and heavy rain outside (i'm in the southern hemisphere - it's winter now) and the ambience was palpable. I screamed like a little girl at the banging on the door at the top of the stairs and what i found inside - the revelations that sprung to my mind before the voiceover. I screamed again when i found out that the puppets can really, really move fast when they are after you. And i found relief in the small ducts where they wouldn't be able to find me.
I managed to ghost the mission by reloading and playing it again before i entered the cradle - which was a good thing i have 1 flashbomb, 2 fire arrows, 1 mine and 5 holy water potions i can't fight my way thorugh anyway.
Null you need to work on a System Shock 3 somehow.
enchanter on 9/6/2004 at 23:16
OK, I'm completely at an impasse on this mission. I seem to have missed something. I am in the inner cradle, but I have been everywhere I can get to (as near as I can tell), but I haven't triggered the [SPOILER]"leap to your death" objective nor have I met the ghost girl[/SPOILER], so I am completely stuck. I have the [SPOILER]silver surgery equipment and the bag of teeth[/SPOILER], but that's it. I have been to and through all the areas on the map except for the [SPOILER]nursery tower[/SPOILER], which I haven't been able to figure out how to get into. I am completely stuck. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? :confused:
Jason Moyer on 10/6/2004 at 00:05
Do some more exploring in the attic where you found the fuse.
TakeYrSword+Run on 10/6/2004 at 02:55
My "scariest moment in a video game" used to be from SS2: after walking down that hallway to meet the "Doctor", hair standing on end all the way as my niggling suspicions solidified into concrete realization of how completely Shodan had been manipulating me all along... I nearly broke both keyboard and mouse in a kinesthetic panic as I tried to escape Shodan's "reality" unfolding around me.
That experience has now taken second place to (more like "been obliterated by") the hours-long creep up the Cradle's spiral stairs. OK, it was probably only a minute, but it felt like forever. I'd move up one step, listen for the knocking... nothing... OK, I'm going to move now... *rattle rattle Knock KNOCK!* Freeze, wait for heart to stop pounding. I'm proud (?) to say I only had to repeat the phrase "it's just a game" twice, and only once out loud, in order to work up the nerve to open that door. Did shut my eyes as I did it, though.
And I must have sounded a bit like Benny mumbling when I first spotted the painting, and who was on it... "Hey that's... but... oh sh... oh my... but if... YIKES!" Remembering how I'd always felt bad for Gamal, since she was obviously such a "different" child , but now finally understanding *why*...
Excellent job, null, and indeed all the Taffers involved.
RE: Jacob's Ladder... I thought so! My first glance at the lobby brought flashbacks of that "hell hospital" corridor scene. I was just glad there weren't any of those freaky vibrating-head dudes around! ...only to find later that you'd not only put them in, but managed to make them even freakier! Seeing that flick is enough to make anyone twisted, but I think you've reached new heights with Cradle ;)
Thanks -- an experience to remember, even if it does mean I have trouble sleeping now (*not* kidding).
