null on 3/6/2004 at 23:30
Quote:
That leaves just one loose thread....
[spoiler]What happened to the inmates after the fire? Were they killed by smoke inhalation or the like... or worse, were they sealed in by the City authorities? The doors are all barricaded from the INSIDE, except for the basement hatch.
Ugh, there's the most disturbing thought of all... the still-living patients wandering the halls pathetically, succumbing to starvation... then brought back to 'life' by the Cradle itself. Deliciously sick. :cheeky: [/spoiler]
Thanks for the response, Null. The Cradle will live on in the backs of our minds for a long, long time. Whether we want it to or not. :sweat:
[SPOILER]Correct.
The inmates remained inside and likely slaughtered the remaining Staff that didn't occupy the tower (bones here and there indicate as such), and for a time, they probably had the run the asylum under the spider-like rule of their mad king. The few Staff and orphans left in the halls were probably stalked and unspeakably disposed of by the White Hall 9.
Ultimately, though, these worst among the patients became emaciated, and probably lost their lives to the overwhelming, alien will of the institution. With lockdown portcullises preventing any real escape, they could do nothing but sit there and erode under its omnipresent attention. I've always thought of the Cradle's malignance as that of a surrogate parent. A home to the lost, in which they'll never be found.
The building, whatever it is, had the strongest, most interesting memories of those in the White Hall, and so it kept them animated for 50+ years, waiting to play with you.
A Stitch In Time Saves Nine.[/SPOILER]
theblackw0lf on 3/6/2004 at 23:31
Quote Posted by GRRRR
Finally played it too :D
Was spooky, didnt manage to scare the living psycho crap outta me like the silent hill games, but sure was a thight moody experience. The patients were a freaky sight (although imho they could have used a wee bit more head-twitching...like those guys in "Jakobs Ladder" :ebil: ). Actually i felt more uncomfortable at the start of the mission, when there was just the empty asylum - coz i didnt know what to expect after reading all the posts regarding the cradle ;) . Mostly crouched through the level and gave every patient my special "eat 2 flashbombs after each backstab" recipe. I was a tiny-weenie itsy-bitsy weee dissapointed by the "Past" of the asylum. Expected a whole different ambiente - like new tapestry, cozy lights, lots of people - ya know..."nice past - evil present".
Well done guys! :thumb: :thumb:
Yea I'd like to know from Null why he made that design choice. [spoiler]I respect his judgement so I feel there's a reason why the only things you encounter in the past are the staff members. I thought it would have been really cool to actually experience how the past actually was. Walking down the hallways, seeing people receiving treatment, hear stories and talking from the orphans, etc.. That was my biggest disappointment in the level.
The other disappointment was that not much actually happened. I kept expecting to encounter some ghosts like from System Shock 2, or maybe see more evidence that the cradle is "alive" Things like furniture moving on it's own, walls disappearing and reappearing in other places, the statue heads turning and looking at me, etc...[/spoiler]
ejsmith on 3/6/2004 at 23:46
Very interesting. I'd never have guessed the "significance" of the chair.
null on 3/6/2004 at 23:51
[SPOILER]Multiple reasons, really...
I was already working all hours on a very ambitious vision. The Cradle's memories, as they shipped, were already extremely complex and I had only the support of a single mission's resources. As is, when you enter the past, all the rubble disappears, the scorch marks disappear, toys disappear, loot disappears, the lights change, the vision filters change, all ambient sound changes, inventory is disabled, et cetera.
As far as orphans went, I wanted you to remain focused on Lauryl, so I established an horror-oriented puppet / puppeteer relationship, where the only things the cradle cared to remember in detail were:
A) Lauryl, the victim whose murder set in motion many of the events that resulted in its downfall and the birth of its will as a conscious entity
B) Its nine favorite playthings (monstrous inmates of great individual interest)
C) The shades of the Staff hive-mind, which are remembered as just faceless malice, and are now just extensions of its desires and impulses.
Walking around and talking to ghosts of children, or seeing the Cradle in its original incarnation, when it was simply an orphanage, while interesting for an adventure game, wouldn't really have communicated the sense of dread I wanted to impart. Ultimately, a mixture of an economic "layer of memories" mindset and the target emotional state produced the shipping result, which I'm happy with in a Thief game.
As I've said many times, I'd love to do a game in the not-too-distant future where I can extrapolate all those systems to something even more ambitious. Base the entire game around that kind of pervasive atmosphere and terror.[/SPOILER]
Ethne on 4/6/2004 at 00:05
Null...
you are an evil, evil, sick twisted individual...
I like that in a person!
I thought that reading your spoilers may ease my mind a bit, but I see that the nightmares are still to come.
and if you ever do get around to that very ambitious game design, I am already on the ordering list. It may just take me three to five years to complete it. :eek:
PS: I just upgraded my outdated sound card, so now I have EAX turned on, and I am stupid enough to go back in...
dr. cello on 4/6/2004 at 00:13
[spoiler]I think I made the mistake of going back into my past before I was finished with the objectives. Or I'm just retarded... either one works, really. I still need the bottle of wine (and probably some more loot, since I'm at about 80 percent). I never read the thing at the podium. Is there a way to complete the mission without, like, restarting it? As fun as it was, that would be a tad frustrating.[/spoiler]
Nupraptor on 4/6/2004 at 01:11
Quote Posted by Buho
It's possible to ghost it. The puppet on the floor... there are two ways into the morgue, and I think if you take the elevator route, it's far enough away it doesn't wake. At least, for me, it never woke.
[spoiler]I meant the morgue proper, where the dead bodies are stored. There's only one doorway into it, and a puppet laying on the floor right inside the doorway.[/spoiler]I wound up tossing holy water on top of it like MachDelta for a stealthy kill.
I know you've already gotten a lot of praise, null, but I was just thinking about the excellent attention to detail in this mission. I don't think any other part of the game had this much of a detailed history. I find it especially cool that every puppet has a name and history.
theblackw0lf on 4/6/2004 at 02:02
Quote Posted by Nupraptor
[spoiler]I meant the morgue proper, where the dead bodies are stored. There's only one doorway into it, and a puppet laying on the floor right inside the doorway.[/spoiler]I wound up tossing holy water on top of it like MachDelta for a stealthy kill.
I know you've already gotten a lot of praise, null, but I was just thinking about the excellent attention to detail in this mission. I don't think any other part of the game had this much of a detailed history. I find it especially cool that every puppet has a name and history.
Yea, to be honest I'm saddened that I was so terrified that I didn't fully explore the place and read all of the notes and get more out of the story. But all I was focused on was finishing my objectives and getting out of there. Maybe someday somebody will make a patch which removes all the enemies and I can go explore the cradle at my leisure.
Melissa on 4/6/2004 at 02:19
Quote Posted by null
As with the creators of the
Silent Hill series, one of the films that has proven the most influential over my career is
Jacob's Ladder. It remains one of the smartest horror films of all time, and is among my favorites. That was the inspiration for the twitch / flicker effect.
The final result has a slightly less cinema-based look, but still served to make the patients appear unearthly, out-of-sync, which was the idea. However,
Ringu and its American counterpart are also among my favorites. Very slick, clever use of sound and the incomprehensible.
I confess that I was starting to wonder if I was going to jump out of the window and be confronted by a Keeper telling me, "Garrett! No! You DIDN'T let her OUT, did you? ;)
I'll add my voice to the accollades - the best scary mission I've ever plaid, specifically because there WASN'T mobs of nasties all about. Suspense is the best thing of all, in my book :)
Cheers!
-M
dr. cello on 4/6/2004 at 03:15
Nevermind.. seems I managed to mess something or other up. I completed the Cradle, and... yes, yes it was a good mission.
