RippedPhreak on 5/6/2025 at 18:30
That's hardly a neutral witness, so why accept his (very unlikely) story at face value? "Nazi neighbors burned down our home and the cops did nothing" is already very unlikely.
The shooter's name is apparently Sigfredo Ceja Alvarez, so good luck painting him as some white supremacist nazi. :laff:
Quote:
the two were checking the mail at a
former residence when the shooting happened.
So in other words they were NOT on their own property, they were on the property of...whoever owns that house now.
Quote:
Without a gun, this might have stayed a simple argument or maybe at worst a fistfight.
From the neighbor's video, Joss was acting very aggressively while menacing people with that pitchfork. So without the gun, the other guy might have been stabbed to death. I guess that's why we'll have a trial - to figure out what really happened.
SD on 5/6/2025 at 21:24
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
The shooter's name is apparently Sigfredo Ceja Alvarez, so good luck painting him as some white supremacist nazi. :laff:
I remember how surprised I was when I first went to the USA and found out Latino were considered separate from white. In Europe, our Spanish are and have always only ever been considered slightly swarthy white people, like Greeks or Italians.
heywood on 5/6/2025 at 23:50
People from Spain are not Latino.
Americans are prejudiced based on nationality and class and race. Venezuelans and Hondurans are not treated the same as Mexicans, Mexicans are not treated the same as Argentinians, and people from Spain are treated like any other European once people know where they are from. Sometimes people make assumptions based on a name. I'm not defending our prejudices, I wish we didn't have them, but they are there.
demagogue on 6/6/2025 at 00:05
Most commonly the checkbox will say something to the effect of "Caucasian and non-Black Hispanic" as the category. So Hispanic and white are in the same category. A little less commonly you'll see Caucasian and Hispanic as separate categories. And today under the current admin, which is more or less openly white supremacist, there are even some forms where they actually make people break down, if they are Latino or Hispanic, which country, which is very sus.
You can find books on this. There's a whole history in the US of the sociology of different groups that weren't really considered established (white before anyone used the term "white") gradually becoming white over time, or rather the construction of whiteness emerged over time as these groups became established ... East Europeans, Irish, Greeks & Italians, and Hispanics are still on the line today. Up until maybe the 1980s, Protestant vs. Catholic (to say noting of Jewish) would have been part of the split too, an quasi-ethnic way of thinking about religion, but I think that's largely fallen by the wayside by now.
Starker on 6/6/2025 at 00:33
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
The shooter's name is apparently Sigfredo Ceja Alvarez, so good luck painting him as some white supremacist nazi. :laff:
You're saying that as if it was some kind of a brilliant gotcha, but nobody had even brought up the killer's ethnicity. Or the victim's, for that matter.
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
So in other words they were NOT on their own property, they were on the property of...whoever owns that house now.
It says
former residence because the house burned down. Obviously he had stopped living there after that. Y'know, making it his
former residence. And he had apparently been looking for a buyer for the property.
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
From the neighbor's video, Joss was acting very aggressively while menacing people with that pitchfork. So without the gun, the other guy might have been stabbed to death. I guess that's why we'll have a trial - to figure out what really happened.
None of the witnesses to the shooting mentioned anything about a pitchfork, only that they were having an argument before the actor was killed. If there had been a pitchfork involved, at least the woman who saw it happen would no doubt have mentioned it:
Quote:
(
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/03/entertainment/jonathan-joss-tribute-nick-offerman)
[...]
A witness, whose name is redacted in the report, told police she drove Joss to the site of his previous home to check his mail. Joss had said previously the home had been destroyed by fire.
The witness said after arriving at the property, the suspect, Sigfredo Ceja, pulled in behind her before getting out of his car and beginning to argue with Joss.
The witness told police she heard Ceja tell Joss he had a gun and would shoot. The incident report describes the weapon as a rifle.
[...]
From the video, it does look like he antagonised the neighbours (which was apparently in turn spurred by finding a dog's remains being placed at his home, likely by those same neighbours), and they apparently had an ongoing feud. But somebody marching up and down the street with a pitchfork and yelling while claiming to be rehearsing for a role doesn't mean you're then justified in going over to their house and killing them.
And yes, I'm inclined to agree with Heywood here that this incident is not necessarily a hate crime, given that there seemed to be other issues involved. The killer might have just been an ordinary bigot, given that he even called the dying man homophobic slurs.
SD on 6/6/2025 at 02:20
Quote Posted by heywood
People from Spain are not Latino.
I was quite sure I didn't say they were. However, Latinos are of overwhelmingly European (ie white) ancestry, predominantly Spanish and Portuguese.
heywood on 6/6/2025 at 16:01
Latino isn't a race. Latinos identify as white, black, Amerindian, Asian, mulatto, mestizo, mixed. The majority are considered white.
SD on 6/6/2025 at 23:02
Seems moot, as there's no such thing as "race" in humans anyway.
Tocky on 7/6/2025 at 02:03
Thank you Starker for pointing out facts to RippedPhreak. Apparently facts are "very unlikely" to him. The fact is, if you go onto a mans property, whether or not his home is there because it was burned, and shoot him while calling him homophobic names THAT looks like a hate crime.
And it does not matter who has what ethnicity or how many times you deny fact by saying the words "very unlikely".
Also the dogs remains he found were HIS dogs remains that burned in the fire SOMEONE who disliked him among his neighbors set.
So once again, gee I wonder why he was mad.
