Remake of the Keeper Assassins

Crispy on 25/4/2005 at 07:43

As near as I can tell, the glowing eyes on the boss look like they're part of its skin (i.e. its texture). (I can't find the skin to confirm or deny this, though.)

The good news is that if they are on the skin, it should be possible to edit the assassins' skin to achieve the same effect.

The bad news is that I don't know if skins can be animated or not. I don't remember seeing animated textures at all when I played through the game. Anyone (devs?) know if Flesh supports animated textures? What about the base UT engine?

The other bad news is that that won't make them more visible to NPCs; just to Garrett. (Well, I guess that's good news if you're in the "assassins should be completely invisible to NPCs" camp. :)) There's no reason why both approaches can't be combined, though; time it so that the eyes flash at the same time as the assassins themselves flash.

Fallen+Keeper on 25/4/2005 at 08:26

Doc,

glowing, flashing eyes? Almost transparent in the light, invisible in the shadows? Like Predator. :erg:

If you want to stick to the concept you should keep their eyes glowing. The concept and gameplay are often in collision though and this is the case. What's the point of making them invisible if you can see their eyes. Apparently everyone has his own motives here :) I, for instance, want them to be invisible to increase the challenge and play the game as it was intended, not because they're cool. Ion followed the "cool". The entire game is cool. And now we are here t put the things in order. ;)

Crispy,

the whole point of this is mess is... the mess the Enforcers leave behind them. NPCs should not see them because if they do it would lead to a whole series of possible unwanted situations that ruin the immersion, just like the one you've mentioned. The Enforcers are masters of stealth, therefore they should be absolutely invisible to any common mortal. :) And of course, what's the point of invisibility once they're dead?

As a side note: isn't it nicer to outsneak them instead of taking them out?

Crispy on 25/4/2005 at 09:06

Garrett is a master of stealth, and normal humans can see him. :) Okay, so granted, he doesn't have glyph-given superpowers, but still.

Having said that, I absolutely agree that NPCs shouldn't be able to see the Enforcers/assassins/whatever we're calling them clearly. And the Enforcers (I guess I'll stick with that name) definitely should be ignoring the NPCs; I don't think there's any argument there. I do think, though, that it would both be cool and to have the NPCs sense some kind of presence; and that needn't be detrimental to gameplay. Edgy NPCs = more challenge.

It's not clear from Nomad's description how much the NPCs react, though... (are we talking "hmmm... must've been rats", or full-out search mode?) I'd need to see his mod in action before I made a final decision. To be honest, I don't care much either way; each way has different kinds of tension.

Of course there's no point in being invisible when you're dead. I was saying that it might be a good idea for their bodies to turn visible; their powers might only work while they're alive and conscious, and it provides a small disincentive to taking them out. (I always thought it reduced their freakiness that you could take them out so easily - it made them seem more normal. "Okay, so apart from the weird voice, heightened senses, and permanent search mode, these guys are just normal humans. No big deal." It occurs to me that making them immune to KOing and boosting their hitpoints might be a good thing to do.)

I think glowing eyes are acceptable in moderation. :) Like if they just flickered on every 30 seconds or so (assuming that's possible, which I doubt), rather than being on all the time (which I agree would not be a good thing). Probably not worth the effort they'd take to implement, though, so personally I wouldn't bother. I'm just providing technical information here. :)

Ziemanskye on 25/4/2005 at 09:11

Just for the record - if you make the Enforcers invisible to the rest of the NPCS, any which way, can the they still see the civs / guards / hammers / ...whatever? Might still end up with a mess if they're too hostile, just the others can't fight back.

And on the bodies I'd (cynically) want them to puff up in smoke or something when dead and have a normal human civilian (or keeper maybe) body that's visible to everyone. The Glyphs come undone and the person is added to a slightly different book of names.

Glowing eyes works for me as a concept just as a means of making it easier for Garrett (as a player) to detect them, despite the fact the NPCs will never notice it.

Fallen+Keeper on 25/4/2005 at 09:47

Quote:

Crispy:
Garrett is a master of stealth, and normal humans can see him. Okay, so granted, he doesn't have glyph-given superpowers, but still.

Heh, they can see you maybe. :D The idea of edgy NPC is nice but I don't know if it's possible to do as we want it. There would be a high risk of screwing the entire thing. It would need a lot of tuning. I think this a BIG extra.

And glowing eyes are a total contradiction to the entire idea of Enforcers.

Glowing eyes = marking your position.

nomad of the pacific on 25/4/2005 at 10:37

I don't have time to work on this right now. Maybe someone else can tweak it in to an acceptable level or at least let us know what you think of the result.

Here's what I did:

Create this trigger script and add it to the Enforcer.

Quote:

Conditions
When player starts map
Actions
Invisibility: Pawns attached via [MYSELF] will become invisible for the next [9.00] seconds.
Delay [10.00] REALTIME seconds
Start over, looping infinitely until my owner is destroyed

Then change the Enforcer's properties to this:

Quote:

Invisibility
InvisibilityInterpolationRate 0.040000
InvisibilityTargetAlpha 0.040000

The script will make the Enforcer visible on death, I think. (Haven't tried it, yet.) The level of invisibility and rate of change can be changed to match your taste. I actually made three trigger scripts with varying "flicker" times so the Enforcers don't all flash at the same time. Other AI will see the Enforcers during the "flicker", but at no other time. The guards DO freak out when they see them.

That's as far as I got. Have fun! :D

EDIT:
Forgot a couple things:

In Properties: LoadFilter, put a check mark on kLoadFilter0
Delete trigger script HideKepperAssassinAtGameDay6Start

Also, you should add the property Render:CastsShadows = False.

EDITED EDIT:
Also add CastShadows = False to WorldObj:SetDressing:AIParts:KeeperAssassinMask, KeeperAssassinShoulderL and KeeperAssassinShoulderR and akso MagicWand:KeeperAssassinGlaive

Crispy on 25/4/2005 at 11:23

Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper

Heh, they can see you maybe. :D

:cheeky:

Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper

The idea of edgy NPC is nice but I don't know if it's possible to do as we want it. There would be a high risk of screwing the entire thing. It would need a lot of tuning. I think this a BIG extra.

True. And if they do go into search mode as Nomad seems to be saying, that's more of a reaction that I'd like. So I think we're in agreement on this one now.

Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper

And glowing eyes are a total contradiction to the entire idea of Enforcers.

Yeah, on second thoughts I agree with you on this as well. Cancel the glowing eyes. :)

Thanks for the script, Nomad! I'll go and play around with that for a while.

Fallen+Keeper on 25/4/2005 at 12:48

Let's hope that there's someone able to make a patch of the results for the others. :(

S_Hole on 25/4/2005 at 14:35

Quote:

then suddenly you hear a faint crackle and the hollow, far off buzz of the assassins.

how about an eerie echoy whisper
not anything specific.. just a weak whistle
but something like we had in some of the more spooky T1 levels, if i recall correctly

about the transparency...
ofcourse this wouldn't mean the characters themselves would actually be transparent, but merely a way to simulate lesser visibility to others
like a red cloth against a red brick wall - a psychological effect
or atleast real physical transparency strikes as silly to me

can they be made to be attracted to shadows?
so that they would be at almost all times in a shadow
move slowly in there and take FAST sprints from the shadow over lit area to the nearnest shadow
if this could be done, transparency would be unnecessary
provided that people actually keep their brightness at a low enough level to make any sense
or perhaps visibility would be a function of speed?
running = visible, standing = invisible, sneaking = must've been rats

Maximius on 25/4/2005 at 15:32

S-hole, that sounds cool, Im all for bringing the old sounds back as I think they were a light year ahead of TDS sounds. e.g. the zombies in T1/T2 looked a little stiff but the noises they made were scary, making them a potent immersion factor. The TDS zombies look pretty cool but they sound like chimpanzees with the sniffles, not exactly terror-inspiring.

I think the glowing eyes are a little much too, unless they can be made to flash in every once in a while. Similar to the garbled psychic messages, the flashing eyes could be Garretts only clue as to the presence of the Enforcer. Sure its a disadvantage, but a little disadvantage is necessary for balance. So here is what I imagine so far for my perfect Enforcer. This is not a list of demands, nor is it written in stone, just my ideas being organized:

1. It can go invisibile in full light, due to its enchantments, but the balance is that it is slightly visible in the dark. Maybe because its eyes flash in the dark every 30 seconds? This is one of the only clues that Garrett gets to warn of their presence.

2. Garretts psychic phone tap is disconnected, 98% anyway. All he can detect of the thoughts of the Enforcers, who are otherwise completely silent, is some static or something per S-hole. now, as the enforcers get closer to Garrett, the garbled buzzing increases in volume. its another clue for Garrett, but wait!

3. The enforcers spot garrett, or even hear him. Part of their training is to scramble their thoughts to defend against psychic opponents reading their minds or controlling them. Suddenly Garretts head is filled with a chorus of buzzing, some sound near some sound far away. He can no longer use their thoughts to sense how far away they are, they could be right next to him or two rooms over. Plus the maddening effect of a headfull of loony noises. Now if Garrett hides from the Enforcers successfully, this defensive signal scramble goes away, like guards returning to a more relaxed state.

4. I think Enforcers should be neutral to most NPCs, (what if Garrett gets a mission where he has to protect an NPC from Enforcers! Now how the hell would you go about setting that up?) The Keepers arent going to send their elite assassins to get in a scrap with the city watch or some bozo castle guard, Enforcers are for tough jobs like Garrett or taking out a powerful wizard or cleric or something. That being said, is it really that hard to make the Guard AIs a little nervous when their are enforcers around? I supose it could be a pain but it could be a lot of fun too.