Bumbleson on 29/5/2005 at 17:57
No, unfortunately I can not. That's the most frustrating aspect of this whole thing. :(
In Dromed scripting wasn't made for everyone. But the engine had an interface that could communicate with scripts contained in a DLL (the *.osm files were just renamed *.dll libraries). This way everyone with knowledge about C++ and the interface can code new scripts today.
T3Ed finally features a script manager that allows everyone to create his own scripts easily. *BUT* it is extremely limited when it comes to more complex tasks. It lacks a great number of useful conditions and actions, including the two fictious ones you mentioned above (yes, nothing like that exists!). And there seems to be no chance to add new elements, as they are hardcoded into the editor and game executables.
To be honest, after resuming work on some of the enforcer enhancements, I'm again so frustrated by these limitations that I'm close to throwing in the towel :(
I have a certain imagination of how things should work and I'm not satisfied with cheap workarounds, but this system is not even capable of the most basic things I would need to realize it. I almost wish we had the Dromed scripting system back. Then I could learn C++ and implement what I need myself :p
The T3 scripting system was clearly developed without a greater vision in mind, but rather to make the game work the way it was released and nothing more. LGS has done a much better job. Their system, although not as easily accessible as T3's, was much more versatile. This also applies to other things, like the stimulus system. In Dromed the effect of a stimulus was entirely up to the designer (by defining an appropriate receptron) and you could create as many new ones as you liked, not interfering with each other. And every object could be used as a stim source.
In T3 you have to live with a fixed set of stimuli and you can't change their effects. An invisibility stim always causes invisibility. Using it for other purposes would produce unwanted side effects. And they apparently don't work on some object classes (like the player, lights etc.). It's just sad :(
Anyway, there's always room for hope, so I have one more question: Has anyone already worked with stims, especially radius stims? Is my observation that certain classes can't be used as stim sources correct? If yes, there goes another idea.... :p No Equillibrium-style invisibility for the assassins (Equillibrium used stimuli sent out by all light sources to control Keeper invisibility).
Rantako on 29/5/2005 at 18:44
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And they apparently don't work on some object classes (like the player, lights etc.)
To make a stim affect an object, that object's vulnerability object must be 100 per cent vulnerable to that stim (this does not necessarily mean it is damaged by it, just that it can detect it). If your objects aren't being affected, they must not be vulnerable to the stim you are using. Vulnerability objects are under MetaProperty -> VulnerabilityObject.
You can even create your own vulnerability objects if none of the existing ones suit what you want to do - for example, I made a vulnerability object for my water elemental so it could only be harmed by moss arrows.
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In Dromed the effect of a stimulus was entirely up to the designer (by defining an appropriate receptron) and you could create as many new ones as you liked, not interfering with each other.
In T3 you have to live with a fixed set of stimuli
Though we have a limited number of stims in T3Ed, it seems that about half of them were never actually used in the game - meaning we can use them for whatever custom purposes we want. These stims are things like Cold, Heat, Poison, Smoke...
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and you can't change their effects.
As far as I can tell, the stims are all actually identical - on their own they don't do anything. The reason it seems like their effects can't be changed is because (for the commonly used ones, at least) there are heaps of scripts and vulnerabilities telling the game what to do when objects receive them. This is why a fire stim always hurts Garrett - because of his vulnerability object.
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And every object could be used as a stim source.
Which objects don't seem to be working? Everything I have used has worked fine.
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especially radius stims
Something I'm unsure about with radius stims is whether they are emitted constantly or only when the object emitting them is spawned. They definitely work, as I have already used them to make a 'darkness arrow' which turns out all the lights in the area. It spawns an object which gives out a cold stim over a radius; this is then detected by a script on the lights which turns them off for a few seconds.
Hope this helps :)
Something else I would put in the wiki if I could...
Bumbleson on 30/5/2005 at 22:03
Quote Posted by Rantako
If your objects aren't being affected, they must not be vulnerable to the stim you are using.
My objects are affected fine, but not all objects seem to work as a stim
source. I wondered about this the first time when I tried to make Garrett emit a trigger stim. At that time I thought I made some mistake and abandoned the idea. Now I wanted to use light actors as a radius stim source to control an Enforcer's visibility, and again it didn't work. Then I placed a barrel with the same stim settings and now the guy finally vanished. So I assume lights don't work as stim sources (as well as the player).
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The reason it seems like their effects can't be changed is because (for the commonly used ones, at least) there are heaps of scripts and vulnerabilities telling the game what to do when objects receive them. This is why a fire stim always hurts Garrett - because of his vulnerability object.
Ok, I was wrong about not being able to change the effects. I just forgot to check the scripts of the parent archetypes. But the problem more or less remains the same. I wouldn't want to check the whole archetype hierarchy for hidden scripts and vulnerabilities to eliminate before I can safely use a certain stim for my very own purposes. Even if it looks like heat, cold etc. weren't used in the game, would you rely on it? It's not for nothing that experienced Dromeder's advise newbies to use a custom stim for special purposes to avoid unwanted effects.
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Which objects don't seem to be working? Everything I have used has worked fine.
Try "PlayerGarrett" and a concrete actor derived from the "Light" (not "Light_") archetype.
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Something I'm unsure about with radius stims is whether they are emitted constantly or only when the object emitting them is spawned.
I think they are emitted once a second unless you set them to "IsExplosion = TRUE"
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this is then detected by a script on the lights which turns them off for a few seconds.
Interesting. Have you already tried this on each type of light (see above)?
Quite a bit, but I still think T3Ed's capabilities in this domain are far too limited for my taste...
Fallen+Keeper on 17/6/2005 at 11:02
The candle has burnt out or the T3ED's knowledge is simply insufficient?
SneaksieDave on 17/6/2005 at 14:33
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, and I'll be damned if I'm going to go back and read this entire thread again, but - has it been brought up how insanely annoying the "TALK EXTREMELY LOUDLY IN MY HEAD" thing is? Has anyone thought to remove the telepathy garbage altogether? It changes nothing and is just a gimmick - they don't find you any easier - and in addition, it's more annoying than hell. I dread the fact that it will make each and every single keeper assassin mission to come pure torture for me.
Ziemanskye on 17/6/2005 at 14:41
I'll agree to that. ;P
Either not telepathic, or certainly a lot quieter would be good.
Bumbleson on 17/6/2005 at 22:14
I don't know how to make them quieter, but if the things that were dicussed here would work the way they were intended to (as far as I remember, the only things that really work well are Rantako's "summoning script" and the constant invisibility script), you would be glad you can hear them in your mind :sly: Because then they would be invisible, stay in the shadows most of the time, and search the shadows for you!
But unfortunately these things don't work and probably won't until somebody takes apart the game exe and puts some new scripting commands in...
By the way, I've more or less given up my attempts to implement some new abilities. It's either impossible or I'm too dumb. I guess I will have a look at the problem again from time to time as knowledge advances, but I'm not actively looking for a solution anymore.
New Horizon on 17/6/2005 at 22:17
Quote Posted by Bumbleson
But unfortunately these things don't work and probably won't until somebody takes apart the game exe and puts some new scripting commands in...
If somebody could do that...I would personally pleasure them...or at least pay someone to pleasure them.
SneaksieDave on 17/6/2005 at 22:42
:eek: LOL
Don't forget! There's that one person that claims to have the source and is going to change the game for his own satisfaction, and then maybe if we're nice enough, he'll surprise us!!!11
:laff:
Bumbleson on 17/6/2005 at 23:11
Do you mean the former Forum Shakespeare (tm)?
