BEAR on 21/11/2008 at 17:08
Interesting. I've read through some of it, will have to read more later. Its an interesting question of whether china will choose to be a part of the western international community or go more of its own way. Historically China has resisted outside influence and set itself apart, which proved to not work to well for them in the 19th century.
nickie on 21/11/2008 at 20:10
Quote Posted by BEAR
. . . but I've come to believe that we're just as flawed in our vision as anyone else.
I don't usually make comments in this type of thread but this statement, if it could possibly be replicated throughout the world, would give me more encouragement for a 'better' future than anything I've read for a long time.
BEAR on 23/11/2008 at 06:19
Heh, thanks.
I've come to view things a lot more from a biological perspective than a psychological one these days, and I wonder if the reason that more people don't think that, or are less open to that type of idea is the simple truth that it feels good to believe in something. It feels good to be patriotic, because in a pure evolutionary way, being pro your-group and anti everyone else probably benefits survival. That probably sounds weird to some people, it seems to be less intuitive for other people than it is to me, but seems every week something pops up in the news (usually on new scientist, damn them) that makes our own perceptions of free will seem so silly.
The more I think like that about things the more it makes sense and the more it scares the crap out of me, because I realize that it is a lot harder to change. Its clearly possible, but it means we have to come to uncomfortable conclusions as a species and its hard to expect anyone to. That assumes I'm not losing my mind or something, in the end I realize it doesn't really matter because I cant say "society should be this or that" because its objective. I'd like to see humanity get over this shit, and maybe eventually we will, but I'm not terribly optimistic.
Thief13x on 23/11/2008 at 18:02
Quote Posted by BEAR
Haha
A Chinese guy that I chat with now and again
so that's what they're calling it these days...
BEAR on 23/11/2008 at 19:07
...
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Coffee causes you to create topics? I could understand alcohol causing that effect but coffee? Interesting. What is it about coffee that inspires you to create thread topics as opposed to just posting a response in someone elses thread?
Sorry I missed that before, you must have snuck that in as I was replying to br#. Coffee seems to loosen my inhibitions in a way. Things I might just assume doesn't make sense/nobody cares about sometimes seems a lot more relevant when I've been drinking coffee. Booze does the same thing I guess, but it also mellows me to the point where I'm not as inclined to post stuff. Coffee wires me and makes me feel like doing things like that.
paloalto90 on 23/11/2008 at 23:37
Quote:
but I've come to believe that we're just as flawed in our vision as anyone else.
I don't think we have a unified vision anymore do we?
Obama talks about fullfilling the dream which is a good metaphor for the campaign trail as long as you don't examine the dream to closely.If you do you will find that we all don't share the same dream or the methods to get their.
An immediate goal for China is to acquire Taiwan and to promote China's desire for hegemony.
Rogue Keeper on 24/11/2008 at 10:31
Quote Posted by BEAR
Interesting. I've read through some of it, will have to read more later. Its an interesting question of whether china will choose to be a part of the western international community or go more of its own way. Historically China has resisted outside influence and set itself apart, which proved to not work to well for them in the 19th century.
Just keep in mind that predictions like this change over time, especially with sudden economical (financial crisis, prices of commodities) and political (like South Ossetia conflict) issues emerge. I think a 2002 or 2004 report of this same agency predicted continuous growth of US influence in the world, as most states gave up intentions to compete with the US.
For example, this report claims that with dwindling oil supplies the muslim government in Iran will be less popular, but that's deep underestimation of muslim fanaticism. They think that terrorism will vanish as developing countries get richer and unemplyment will be reduced, but at the same time the rich countries need them for resources and cheap labor, this way they surely won't develop into succesful economies if they didn't in last 100 years. In fact they predict a lot on assumption that the economic crisis will be over in few years and we'll have business-as-usual growth again, but I believe the world will have to deal with more peculiar economic issues in next 15-20 years. For example an IEA report from last week states that current global trends in production and consumption of energies is totally unsustainable, equally from economical, social and ecological point of view, and the world is near the crossroads where it will have to choose which economic models to accept, which to abandon and what modifications it will adapt. Oh, not that there weren't lone rogue alarmists who claimed this necessity 5-10-25 years ago, but they were usually seen as eccentric doomsayer weirdos and these international organizations have slower thinking, because they often have interest in business as usual.
This kind of energetic and agricultural uncertainities and shakes will have tremendous social impact, what in turn won't help reduction of extremism not only in developing countries, but developed countries will have a high chance to see emergence of extremist moods as well.
"Due to the current financial crisis facing the world at the moment, the light at the end of the tunnel will be switched off to save on electricity costs, until further notice."
