Enchantermon on 1/6/2010 at 02:31
One of my gamer friends is looking into buying a new gaming system and came across this one at TigerDirect: (
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5395929&sku=I455-93700&srkey=I455-93700) iBUYPOWER Gamer Extreme 937i
He's financially limited, so he needs something reasonably priced, but able to last on the gaming scene for a while. This looks like a pretty nice kit. Two things, though. First, the i5 processor. It's advertised as 2.66 GHz, which is a little concerning because I've seen games recently asking for at least 3. Plus, Wikipedia tells me that this processor has (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_microprocessors#.22Lynnfield.22_.2845_nm.29) hyperthreading disabled, which also worries me.
Second, the audio is integrated Realtek HD. He doesn't have a fancy sound system; just a pair of headphones, so he doesn't need a really souped-up audio card, but will this deliver well enough? My laptop has Realtek integrated audio and lacks support for EAX, and possibly other things as well (haven't tried very many newer games on it)
Other than those things, this looks like a pretty sweet system, but I'm certainly not as hardware-smart as some of you are (guess where I'm starting when I build
my gaming computer? ;)). So can anyone give me some answers about the processor and audio and advice as to whether this is a good buy? Much appreciated.
Price: $879.96
Specs:
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i5 750, 2.66 GHz
4 GB DDR3, 1066 MHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTS250, 1 GB video memory
Realtek HD Integrated Audio
1TB SATA HDD, 7200 RPM
700W PSU
DVD-RW drive
TBE on 1/6/2010 at 07:54
That's not a terrible price on that system. It's ok. But yeah, the i5 is not the best performer right now. You could get more bang for your buck by buying an i7, but they're pricey. If your friend wants to save money, and just have a nice system for gaming, I'd steer him towards an AMD Phenom II x4. Probably the 965 Black Edition socket AM3.
I'd recommend you or he build it if you're capable. Add an OS for like $99, and you're not sitting with too much money spent.
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128416) AM3 Motherboard with a lot of frills $140 prior to rebate
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727) Phenom II x4 965 Black Edition $180
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227316) 4 GB of DDR3 Memory $110 prior to rebate
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150462) Radeon 5770 1 GB video card $160
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148433) 1 TB Barracuda hard drive. $80 (stay away from Green, or Blue drives from Western Digital, or any drive that's not at least 7200 RPM.)
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106333) Lite On DVD Burner $20
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042) Antec 300 Case. $60 This case is pretty nice for the price.
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152028) Raidmax 530 Watt Power Supply $50 prior to rebate Don't skimp on a nice power supply. This one is decent, and the lowest wattage one I'd recommend. Buy a quality brand. Read reviews.
(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754) Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit Edition $99
So for about the same price, you would have a much better upgrade path, and a much nicer system in my eyes. Trouble is, if you don't know how to put all this together properly, it won't be worth your money. Buy from a shop instead like the one you list. It's an ok system, and will be almost on par with building this one. But the custom one would be able to add a 6 core processor when he's ready, and more RAM, and so many other good options when you make your own computer.
This AMD system won't be as high performing as an i7 processor, but they are mighty expensive right now. This is an ultimate system still though. I would like to build something like this shopping list.
Onboard Audio isn't that bad. EAX, meh, I can live without. Add a soundcard for about $99 when you find one on sale later. Onboard for now is fine.
Renzatic on 1/6/2010 at 09:39
Actually, most of what I've read about the Phenom II x4s and the i5 chips point towards them both being roughly equal on both the price and performance fronts. He could go with either and be perfectly happy.
As for an i7 vs. other chips, just ask yourself these few questions. Will getting just 85 FPS in a game bother me when I know I could be getting 110? Am I gonna be doing any heavy work with this computer besides play games, like rendering 3D and ripping the shit out of tons of movies and spend an inordinate amount of time converting audio files? If you answered no to both of these questions, then go ahead and get an i5 or a Phenom II. You won't notice any difference between the i7 and the lesser chips out there, and the money you'd save could be put to better use elsewhere.
Enchantermon on 2/6/2010 at 05:08
Quote Posted by TBE
Trouble is, if you don't know how to put all this together properly, it won't be worth your money.
I do know how to build a computer, but your use of the word "properly" concerns me...are there things you have to know that are specific to gaming computers?
Quote Posted by TBE
Onboard Audio isn't that bad. EAX, meh, I can live without. Add a soundcard for about $99 when you find one on sale later. Onboard for now is fine.
Thanks.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If you answered no to both of these questions, then go ahead and get an i5 or a Phenom II. You won't notice any difference between the i7 and the lesser chips out there, and the money you'd save could be put to better use elsewhere.
Cool, then I won't worry about that. I just wanted to make sure the system would last for a while.
EDIT: I've never tried any AMD/ATI systems, so before I recommend one to my friend, help me out a bit, here: there are those who swear by Intel/nVidia and those who swear by AMD/ATI, and it seems like the ones who feel the strongest about either camp seem to also have some reason to hate the other. What is the difference, really? Heat distribution? Power consumption? Processor/card life? Does one outperform the other when equivalent products are pitted against each other? Why all the conflict?
Renzatic on 2/6/2010 at 06:36
Quote Posted by Enchantermon
Cool, then I won't worry about that. I just wanted to make sure the system would last for a while.
Considering the way things are going on the games and graphics front, I'd say it'll give you at least a couple solid years without any upgrades.
Quote:
I've never tried any AMD/ATI systems, so before I recommend one to my friend, help me out a bit, here: there are those who swear by Intel/nVidia and those who swear by AMD/ATI, and it seems like the ones who feel the strongest about either camp seem to also have some reason to hate the other. What is the difference, really? Heat distribution? Power consumption? Processor/card life? Does one outperform the other when equivalent products are pitted against each other? Why all the conflict?
As far as AMD vs. Intel goes, other than having to worry about who currently has the fastest chip out when you're building a new comp, one doesn't offer any serious advantages over the other. What works on an Intel chip will work just fine on an AMD chip. Other stuff like power usage, heat, and whatnot varies from rev to rev. Right now Intel has the fastest, coolest, and least power hungry chips. But next year? Hell, AMD might pop something out that runs faster than the fastest i7 and consumes half the power. All you have to worry about is figuring out which is the best buy of the moment.
Now ATI vs. nVidia, they usually leapfrog each other on performance about every year. Right now I believe ATI is the current big performer, but in about 4 months, nVidia will come out with something that'll kick its ass. Usually I'd suggest you do the same thing you would when buying a CPU, pick which one is the best when you're building. But with PhysX gaining some ground, and games devs working with nVidia a little more these days, it gets a little more complicated. For now, I'd almost always suggest someone get a Geforce over a Radeon. Not because I'm totally in lurrrvvee with nVidia, but because they offer the more complete package that moment.
And building a computer? You're doing the hardest part as we speak. Once you find a good set of hardware that plays well together, the rest is cake. If you have a bit of common sense, and have the brain power to know to fit square pegs into square holes, then slapping it all together will maybe take you about an hour to do...and that's if you're being really, really overly careful.
Sulphur on 2/6/2010 at 07:26
Also, don't lose your motherboard manual, because it's the only thing that tells you where all those multicoloured wires for the CPU and cabinet and other important things go. And don't forget to plug the CPU fan lead into the appropriate jumper before you start the computer! :joke:
Renzatic on 2/6/2010 at 07:38
Or forget to plug in something and assume your computer parts came DOA until you read the motherboard manual 3 days later. i'm so dum
And since I'm kind of assuming you're a late high school/college student, I suggest getting a Windows 7 Pro upgrade for $64.95 from the (
http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx) Microsoft Ultimate Steal Page. Though you probably won't ever find a use for Pro over Home Premium, it's worth going for it for that price.
TBE on 2/6/2010 at 18:20
I wanted an upgrade last summer from my Pentium 4. The guy at the local newegg'ish-type store convinced me on AMD quad core. The upgrade was cheaper than Intel, and performed on par with what Intel had, shy of $1000 processors.
I've built about 8 systems in the past year, all AMD processors. They have all performed wonderful. I even built one with a single core Sargas 2.7 GHz processor. That thing actually surprised me at how well it performed. It was like $27 on sale one day, so I got it for a budget office cpu build.
I'm thinking about i7 a lot lately, and if I had money for a power-build, I'd go with i7. But right now, all I can afford is my year old AMD. The Intel design of the i7 is about 2 years ahead of what AMD has to offer. Maybe I can wait til 2012 when AMD finally uses the Cyberdyne Systems chip they've been reverse engineering. ;)
As for ATI vs nVidia, I've had success with both recently. Really happy with the nVidia card I have in my system, but I just bought an ATI 5770 card, and I'm going to use that. I plan on using nVidia card in a future build.
lost_soul on 3/6/2010 at 01:07
I personally would wait until you can get a system that comes with a GTX4xx card.
As for ATI vs NVIDIA, the answer is simple. If your friend ever plans to use Linux, he should definitely get NVIDIA. The ATI drivers lack many features and support for cards is abandoned in just a couple of years. They "transition you to the open source driver", which means performance isn't as good, and hey, "it is time to buy a new card!" :)
Taken from Wikipedia: fglrx:
The state of the driver has improved over time with ATI trying to work in concert with application developers recently, but this is expected to be a slow process.[5] As of August 2009, many issues still remain: Video playback occasionally has quality and stability problems, especially in Xine.[6] 2D benchmarks show that ATI cards using these drivers are two orders of magnitude slower than the competing NVIDIA cards in basic tasks such as text rendering,[7] making even graphic consoles feel sluggish. Accelerated desktop effects are only partly supported and lack features such as alpha blur. [8]. ATI's drivers for linux simply are inefficient and lacking when compared to its drivers for windows.
Enchantermon on 3/6/2010 at 04:17
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Considering the way things are going on the games and graphics front, I'd say it'll give you at least a couple solid years without any upgrades.
That should be fine.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
All you have to worry about is figuring out which is the best buy of the moment.
Awesome, thanks.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
For now, I'd almost always suggest someone get a Geforce over a Radeon. Not because I'm totally in lurrrvvee with nVidia, but because they offer the more complete package that moment.
Good to know. I plan to do a little more poking around before I settle on anything.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Once you find a good set of hardware that plays well together, the rest is cake. If you have a bit of common sense, and have the brain power to know to fit square pegs into square holes, then slapping it all together will maybe take you about an hour to do...and that's if you're being really, really overly careful.
Also good to know. Like I said, I've had experience with pulling computers apart and putting them back together, so I should be fine in that area.
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Also, don't lose your motherboard manual, because it's the only thing that tells you where all those multicoloured wires for the CPU and cabinet and other important things go.
Absolutely! I plan on emphasizing to my friend the importance of never losing his manuals.
Quote Posted by Sulphur
And don't forget to plug the CPU fan lead into the appropriate jumper before you start the computer! :joke:
Yeah, that just might be a good idea. ;)
Quote Posted by Renzatic
And since I'm kind of assuming you're a late high school/college student, I suggest getting a Windows 7 Pro upgrade for $64.95 from the (
http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx) Microsoft Ultimate Steal Page. Though you probably won't ever find a use for Pro over Home Premium, it's worth going for it for that price.
I am (finishing college), but he is not, and he's the one purchasing the parts. Plus, we're trying to spend as little money as possible; it's best not to put the money into something he won't need, even if it is a steal.
Quote Posted by TBE
As for ATI vs nVidia, I've had success with both recently. Really happy with the nVidia card I have in my system, but I just bought an ATI 5770 card, and I'm going to use that. I plan on using nVidia card in a future build.
Cool. Like I said, I'll do a little more checking, so we'll see.
Quote Posted by lost_soul
I personally would wait until you can get a system that comes with a GTX4xx card.
Thing is, he can't really wait long enough for those cards to drop down to the hundred dollar range, as his computer is currently completely dead.
Quote Posted by lost_soul
As for ATI vs NVIDIA, the answer is simple. If your friend ever plans to use Linux, he should definitely get NVIDIA.
No plans for Linux, so no worries there.
Thanks for the input so far, all. The build TBE suggested is looking pretty good for the money. I'm going to poke around at graphics cards and see if I can find anything better, and I'll let you all know what my friend and I decide on. More advice is always welcome! :)
