Starker on 9/4/2013 at 18:31
Quote Posted by nickie
And Notesthes - I don't know the word either but I know what you mean. :)
Verisimilitude?
nickie on 9/4/2013 at 19:02
Well, 'Magical Realism' is two words and a 'picture paints a thousand words' so I guess I'll go with 'Verisimilitude'. My thanks to all contributors.
jtr7 on 9/4/2013 at 22:57
LGS held to a Doug Church maxim: Don't break the game's fiction. All post-LGS Thief titles happily or reluctantly break the fiction. Basing Thief[4] more on TDS than the previous titles means they started with a broken foundation and put a dozen twists on that, snapping threads all over the tapestry.
Renzatic on 10/4/2013 at 01:18
Quote Posted by jtr7
LGS held to a Doug Church maxim: Don't break the game's fiction. All post-LGS Thief titles happily or reluctantly break the fiction. Basing Thief[4] more on TDS than the previous titles means they started with a broken foundation and put a dozen twists on that, snapping threads all over the tapestry.
I remember way back when LGS shut down. I can't remember who it was, Lulu LaMer maybe, came on the board and posted the entire story of what their version of Thief 3 was going to be like. The Thief 3 we got out of ISA ended up having almost exactly the same plot.
Maybe someone can do a search for that post. I've tried, but I can't seem to find it. Unless I dreamed it up, it's buried around here somewhere.
But anyway, how did Thief 3 break the fiction at all?
Nuth on 10/4/2013 at 01:28
I think I must have liked TDS more than a lot of people did. Most of what I didn't like were the compromises they had to make for consoles or things they couldn't get to work right such as swimmable water and rope arrows. I thought the continuation of the story was fine. There were some choices I didn't like such as the Mae West voice for that fence. Wasn't really a fan of the Kurshok.
Oh, and I greatly preferred the old style cut scene lead-ins to the missions.
jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 01:58
We were happy to see Thron's work in most of the full-color cutscenes, but not the awful monochrome ones that weren't even sepia. There were problems with communication and time windows for the movies, and Dan Thron wasn't on the premises anymore and was running his own company with other projects going on, for many aspects of the game. It was clear to me when playing through that getting laid off from Looking Glass snuffed out the fires, they'd put it all behind themselves, started a new life, and then couldn't get back to where they'd left off. Several of the major names that shaped the first games mightily, were either in different positions, or were at other companies, contracted out for TDS. I never think of the TDS story in overall arching terms. The general plot isn't the issue. Characters acted different, had different motives, the Keepers were stupid as hell all of a sudden rather than just corrupt and knowledgeable, the Enforcers were a joke compared to what the fiction set up, The City was shrunk way down in the fiction not just the maps, the art department didn't have Thron making their maps so they just used the sketches the level designers handed to them and added filters and clipart, the architect's "blueprints" for the Cradle weren't blueprints at all but more sketches by the level designers. TDP/TMA could've been improved upon, but there was less attention to details all around. Many things TDP/TMA set up or just did weren't even carried over, or if they were, weren't improved but made juvenile and weak in comparison. The animations of everything were lesser quality, instead of improved. Thankfully TDS got some things right, but the story felt like it wasn't written by the same people, but people who could imitate some things like the best FM makers we got.
Nuth on 10/4/2013 at 02:06
How could I have overlooked the Enforcers when I was saying what I didn't like about TDS? Yeah, they were just wrong. Wrong enough to make you wonder how they got in there in the first place.
jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 03:09
The games are good at overloading the senses in a good way that we can easily push dislikes aside until they compound too much in one place. :cool:
SilenTaffer on 10/4/2013 at 03:17
Quote Posted by Nuth
How could I have overlooked the Enforcers when I was saying what I didn't like about TDS? Yeah, they were just wrong. Wrong enough to make you wonder how they got in there in the first place.
I know lol, I imagined Enforcers more like a Garrett with the impulsion to kill instead of steal. Fast, silent, deadly and of course able to conceal their presence.
jtr7 on 10/4/2013 at 03:25
Years ago, when modders were looking to redo the Enforcers, I suggested they should be special effects, not AIs. AIs could pop into view to kill Garrett, or appear after Garrett's been killed and is looking up at them form the ground. There should never have been interaction between Enforcers and non-Keepers, ever. Even the excuse the Keepers were corrupt doesn't cover it well at all, all things considered and respected. They could've been the scariest opponent in the entire series.
Realism I never want to see without a hell of a lot of careful design new to the industry: I never want to see Garrett have bad footing or bad equilibrium. TDS fudged in bad footing on accident. Let the player control a Garrett who doesn't twist an ankle, lose balance, get dizzy, teeter, careen, trip, or fall on his arse, like a real human. :p
