Renzatic on 8/4/2013 at 19:21
Quote Posted by Starker
How do you know that?
From what I've read about EM's experiences making Deus Ex.
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So, back to my original point.. saying that it's possible to make a publisher funded Thief title that will please the hard-core Thief fans is naive. A hundred thousand fans don't even blip on their radar.
This is where we disagree. See, there are two sides to the equation. The publishers, and the developers. The publishers are a bunch of bastards out to make a quick buck. The developers (usually, though not always) want to make a game they can be proud of. The chances of a publisher funded Thief that could please the hard core fans is roughly equal to how involved the publishers are with the game design process. If they come in there screaming "WE WANT THIS THIS AND THIS" and futz about with the process, it'll be terrible. If they generally let things slide by smoothly with only a light bit of pressure, then the chances are much better of us seeing a good hardcore fan pleasing Thief game.
Since SE left EM alone for DX, and it turned out pretty well for them and us, the same could happen with Thief 4. Could being the operative word here, because we don't know what's going on behind the scenes yet, the true talent of the team, and how it's all turning out thus far. All we have are tidbits of information that's a mix of good and bad.
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Even Tomb Raider was considered a failure, because it only sold about 3 million copies the first month.
Yeah, well that's because Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix were stupid to the point of ridiculousness about it. If you set your standards so high that practically nothing can meet them, you're bound to be disappointed no matter how great things go.
...which is a lesson some of you here could learn as well.
pavlovscat on 8/4/2013 at 19:40
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If you set your standards so high that practically nothing can meet them, you're bound to be disappointed no matter how great things go.
...which is a lesson some of you here could learn as well.
This is exactly what ruined TDS for me - unrealistic expectations. I am trying not to make the same mistake again. It's been almost a decade since TDS was released. This will be a much different game. I hope that different doesn't mean bad, but I haven't seen enough to judge. There are things I think I won't like, but I'm not sure yet. I'm hoping they can make it all work together.
jay pettitt on 8/4/2013 at 19:49
To be fair, it was a bit of a mess.
And the fact that Robbing the Cradle was near universally adored kinda suggests that people weren't entirely closed to T3.
Renzatic on 8/4/2013 at 20:00
Yup. Like I said somewhere else around here, ISA had to face a ton of problems while making T3 that directly affected the final quality of the game. Problems that EM doesn't have to deal with. They're in an entirely opposite situation.
To play devil's advocate, ISA had a goodly amount of ex-LGS members working on T3. It's the reason why, despite the circumstances, the game ended up even as good as it did. EM, as far as we know, is staffed by people entirely new to the series. They have the time, the money, and a great engine. Things ISA didn't have. They have talent, sure. But can they make a good Thief game?
Starker on 8/4/2013 at 20:01
Quote Posted by Renzatic
From what I've read about EM's experiences making Deus Ex.
Would they really say otherwise, though?
It's really hard to believe that a publisher would just hand the money over and say, "Do what you want".
The influence starts right from the beginning -- projects without mass market appeal get the shaft right there and then.
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If you set your standards so high that practically nothing can meet them, you're bound to be disappointed no matter how great things go.
...which is a lesson some of you here could learn as well.
Is it really too much to ask that Garrett be toned down or that the game be in first person or that we won't have our hand guided by scripted features or that our favourite voice actor would continue voicing him or that we can have more stealth and less stealth action?
How is it that Fargo can please Fallout fans who are the most rabid unreasonable uncompromising fans ever? It can't be that difficult.
pavlovscat on 8/4/2013 at 20:04
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
To be fair, it was a bit of a mess.
And the fact that Robbing the Cradle was near universally adored kinda suggests that people weren't entirely closed to T3.
I've said it before, TDS was a good game. It wasn't perfect, but it was good. I've played through it several times. I expected it to be even better than T1-G-2. For me, it was not. A GOOD game suffers in comparison to a GREAT one through no fault of its own. I let that color my feelings toward TDS, but I am not closed to it at all. Also, there are TDS FMs I love which is why I'd like to see a T4 editor released no matter how little or much I like the released game. I have absolute faith that the fans can make anything better.
nickie on 8/4/2013 at 20:07
Quote Posted by pavlovscat
It's been almost a decade since TDS was released.
Dammit pav! Do you really have to remind me how old I am?
I pre-ordered TDS and played 3 or 4 missions. I don't regret it. I bought Doom3 to play TDM but never had a machine capable of TDM - still I don't regret it. And I do have a perfect Doom3 should anyone want it. And, depending on my financial situation when this becomes available for pre-order, I might well order it too. I don't know. I just don't know enough to know.
pavlovscat on 8/4/2013 at 20:09
Sorry, nickie. :(
I pre-ordered it too. My hubby had a frantic couple weeks after it arrived upgrading my pc so that I could play it! :cheeky:
nickie on 8/4/2013 at 20:12
Is he available for upgrading other pcs? I'll pay in my father-in-law's collection of whisky! He won't notice the loss of a couple of bottles - I'm a good thief after all!
Renault on 8/4/2013 at 20:18
I think 2 of my last 3 PC upgrades have been specifically for Thief games, but I think some of that was just coincidence. Next year I'll probably extend that to 3 out of 4. I also remember pre-ordering TDS from Gamestop ($5 down!) and then got pissed at them when my copy didn't arrive on release day. :mad:
