2003MINI on 6/5/2005 at 02:20
I was wondering how to create fences and stores in my mission and then I had a breakthrough. Why can't I just re-use the city as it exists? The maps would, for the most part, be on everyone's installation already. I could then change one of the maps, such as south quarter, to have a new portal to the mission I was planning. Everything else would be set up. I'd have to change some of the conditions so that Gamall doesn't show up and some of the other issues like that.
Is anyone else planning on re-using the city maps, and are there any issues with doing so?
-2003Mini
str8g8 on 6/5/2005 at 07:52
I have been thinking about this too. What would be good would be a stripped down "vanilla" version of each of the city maps, with just the fences, city guard, pedestrians and so on, without all the stuff specific to Deadly Shadows.
Further, these could be linked to "hub" maps, which mission creators could themselves link to.
This would keep the duplication of the city maps down (but it would take some planning).
cheers
str8g8
Aja on 6/5/2005 at 08:15
Plus the city could be added to. Imagine if we had a 'standard city' available... New additions would have to be added under community consensus, but if the quality was kept high it could be incredible... depending on how large it could get.
str8g8 on 6/5/2005 at 11:57
Quote:
Plus the city could be added to.
Exactly! One of the reasons myself and others are putting together the complete city map (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10995&page=17&pp=25) plug is to make this more possible. We could split the city into discrete chunks which are allocated to willing volunteers. These maps would be "public domain" and FM creaters could add links to their own maps from them. Maybe the vanilla Deadly Shadows maps could be public domain - but we wouldn't want them changing too much, maybe just adding portals to previously blocked roads or doorways ...
I was even thinking that this could be the way we "load" missions. Rather than a program, just set off from Garrett's apartment, and make your way through the city to the site of the FM you want to play! Or just roam around, looking for something new!
cheers
str8g8
mol on 6/5/2005 at 13:16
I have no idea what something like this would involve, but the idea is nothing short of fantastic.
It's been discussed before -- using the City as a central hub from which you could launch missions -- but now that we have the editor, it would really be worth looking into.
And the City mapping project also serves this initiative perfectly.
2003MINI on 6/5/2005 at 13:49
Sweet. So what's the next step? I suppose we should consider what would go into the "vanilla" version. The items that come to mind quickly are:
1) Remove Gamall
2) Remove any of the thugs that were part of original story line
3) Keepers + Assassins? Probably remove them if this is to take place AFTER the end of T:DS.
4) Keeper glyphs? Not sure about that
5) Clocktower should be in ruins, again, if this is to take place AFTER T:DS
6) No access to keeper compound since it's known to everyone now
7) Other missions accessible? Probably not. Just the teleports between the areas. No access to The Cradle, Seaside Mansion, etc.
Thoughts?
Maximius on 6/5/2005 at 14:02
I was also starting to modify a city map, Auldale 1 I think, to put in some houses to burgle. Wasnt one of the T2 city maps remade as an FM, I think it was and it was coolio. The idea of running around a city with a variety of new options to explore on any given night is making me tremble with anticipation.
Plus we could have regularly recurring characters! How about a nice City vampire, a real tough, smart, savvy old bastard that Garrett can beat off every so often but never kill. Imagine the rivalry, the creature taunting Garrett about the last FM they encountered one another in, or grudgingly praising him for a particularly good heist in an unrelated FM! "I heard about your last raid on that Hammerite cesspool Ironwood, Garrett, thanks for stealing that blessed gauntlet, they were going to use it on ME!"
FM designers would have to promise to keep it alive when they used him or her, because we want a history to build up between the thing and Garrett. Imagine an FM where Garrett has to assist the city watch, perhaps covertly, with hunting the creature down. Imagine an FM where Garrett has to work WITH the vampire because the Hammerites are on a crusade against evil citywide and both Garret and the vampire are targets? "My Enemies' Enemy"...could be the title! Or was that used?
str8g8 on 6/5/2005 at 14:24
You have raised some interesting points about continuity 2003MINI.
Can FMs take place after Deadly Shadows? Doesn't G become a keeper? Wouldn't that mean he would have to stop thieving? I think it would be better to keep an FM city pre-Deadly Shadows.
Going on that premise, you would have to remove all the things specific to Deadly Shadows, like Gamall, the enforcers, the thugs etc, and the glyphs (since Garrett wouldn't be able to see them).
And that would count for the "missions" too. So it would just be South Quarter, Old Quarter, Stone Market, Auldale and the Docks.
Maximus, not sure about constantly recurring characters, but I suppose it would be possible for new micro-content to be created in these vanilla worlds (something like the sub quests that take place in Deadly Shadows?) as part of their "open source" nature, but again it would have to be managed in some way, or they would become overcrowded ... This is why I describe them as vanilla.
cheers
str8g8
Maximius on 6/5/2005 at 14:41
Str8g8, I was thinking of making a character, say the vampire, then making that AI model available to FM eds. It would not be a constantly recurring character on the streets of the city, but only in FMs. The creation of a City would just provide the proper "literary context" for the recurring vampire character to work within, not actually support a continous AI vampire presence.
For example, I make an FM and introduce this vampire badass. It and Garrett tussle, then go their separate ways, kind of an introduction. But I also make the models and whatever else available to FM editors online. The vamp has its own page, you may download it to use with a couple of conditions:
1. Your FM storyline does not involved the complete destruction of the vampire, it always comes back/escapes at end of FM even when defeated by Garrett or AIs. This rule is set in iron. The whole point of recurring characters is to build a history between Garrett and them. Kind of like Sherlock holmes and his archnemesis, Moriarity.
2. You must submit a condensed account of the interactions between Garrett and the vampire in your FM to the website for posting, that way when the next FM editor uses the vampire he/she can read the brief history and know where to pick up the storyline. e.g. last time the vampire and Garrett were reluctant allies, they would remember that, so their conversations and actions in the next FM would reflect that history a bit. "Thanks for the assistance last time Garrett, but dont expect any breaks this time around."
And you are right about TDS being the end of Garrett as a Thief, so FMs should be pre TDS.
Morpheus on 6/5/2005 at 14:41
Quote Posted by Maximius
I was also starting to modify a city map, Auldale 1 I think, to put in some houses to burgle. Wasnt one of the T2 city maps remade as an FM, I think it was and it was coolio. The idea of running around a city with a variety of new options to explore on any given night is making me tremble with anticipation.
Plus we could have regularly recurring characters! How about a nice City vampire, a real tough, smart, savvy old bastard that Garrett can beat off every so often but never kill. Imagine the rivalry, the creature taunting Garrett about the last FM they encountered one another in, or grudgingly praising him for a particularly good heist in an unrelated FM! "I heard about your last raid on that Hammerite cesspool Ironwood, Garrett, thanks for stealing that blessed gauntlet, they were going to use it on ME!"
FM designers would have to promise to keep it alive when they used him or her, because we want a history to build up between the thing and Garrett. Imagine an FM where Garrett has to assist the city watch, perhaps covertly, with hunting the creature down. Imagine an FM where Garrett has to work WITH the vampire because the Hammerites are on a crusade against evil citywide and both Garret and the vampire are targets? "My Enemies' Enemy"...could be the title! Or was that used?
Why a vampire? :weird:
