Rate Human Revolution vs. other LGS-inspired franchise games

june gloom on 8/12/2011 at 04:20

sorry but unfunny drive-by koki clones don't get to accuse me of anything

PigLick on 8/12/2011 at 04:22

why not? cos your right and they are wrong?

AMIDOINTHISRITE DEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP:thumb:

PigLick on 8/12/2011 at 04:25

wait I forgot these

:cool:

YEEEEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

PigLick on 8/12/2011 at 04:26

yes I am drunk :p

Koki on 8/12/2011 at 07:04

Quote Posted by Thirith

I fail to see how calling any specific RPG or RPG system 'pure' goes much beyond saying, "Well, *I* like *this one* best."

Computer RPGs evolved from pnp RPGs, where only your character matters. So that's about as pure as a computer RPG can get. Not a hard concept to grasp. If you think that's somehow biased or subjective, well, you can't all be as smart and handsome as I am

Quote Posted by dethtoll

sorry but unfunny drive-by koki clones don't get to accuse me of anything

Can I?

[Edit]Also after reading the amazing thread dethtoll linked to where two twats bitch and moan about nothing in particular I would like to set a record straight once and for all:

I was not a member of No Mutants Allowed, I never posted on No Mutants Allowed and the only time I ever had anything to do with the site was to use elements of its Fallout 3 review in my Fallout 3 rantview. Furthermore, as a former member of DACK I find any implications that I was a member of NMA offensive and I will call e-police on the next person who suggests it. Thank you.

Thirith on 8/12/2011 at 09:55

Quote Posted by Koki

"Only your character matters" is and always has been bullshit. Yes, your character matters - but you're still the one making decisions. You're the one figuring things out. If you're a stupid player but your character has INT 18, it's unlikely you will get very far with puzzles etc., unless the DM hands you everything on a silver platter.

And even if the character may be much more important in P&P, that's definitely something that changed in the translation to computer. Unless there are some fabled CRPGs out there that I'm unaware of, where character is all that matters, the '80s CRPGs I remember were all primarily about strategy/tactics and running around in mazes, with the very occasional puzzle or conversation thrown in. They were basically Hero Quest. Obviously your character stats are important, but again: a character of INT 18 will be as bad as a character of INT 3 when it comes to strategy if the player is an idiot.

And this has nothing to do with bias or subjectivity: it's the reality of those games. Your "only your character matters" mantra may be an ideal some of those games strove for, but in practice things are very different.

As for your handsomeness, I've never claimed that I rolled great numbers for charisma. ;)

june gloom on 8/12/2011 at 11:43

Quote Posted by Koki

I was not a member of No Mutants Allowed, I never posted on No Mutants Allowed and the only time I ever had anything to do with the site was to use elements of its Fallout 3 review in my Fallout 3 rantview. Furthermore, as a former member of DACK I find any implications that I was a member of NMA offensive and I will call e-police on the next person who suggests it. Thank you.

So you're saying that your retard helmet is red and not blue.

You're still retarded.

Papy on 10/12/2011 at 04:01

Quote Posted by Thirith

"Only your character matters" is and always has been bullshit. Yes, your character matters - but you're still the one making decisions.

I think you see too much into what character attributes are. Attributes do not define who is your character and what he will do in the game, they only define what you character can do in term of gameplay mechanics. The same way the Strength attribute is about mundane things like how much weight your character can carry and how much damage you do, the Intelligence attribute is about things like how many language your character knows and how many spells he can learn. We all know that it's the player who plays the game, not his character. When people say that only your character matters, they are only talking about gameplay mechanics.

What was lost in the translation of RPG to computers was not the mechanics part of the game. Attributes work exactly the same way in a CRPG as in a pen and paper RPG. What was lost was the role playing part. Because of that, I would even say that attributes in a CRPG are much more important than in a pen and paper RPG, because mechanics is all that is left.

Koki on 10/12/2011 at 15:28

Quote Posted by Thirith

Yeah. That's one of these limitations that cannot be overcome no matter what. Doesn't mean we should be throwing out babies along with bathwater.

Quote:

And even if the character may be much more important in P&P, that's definitely something that changed in the translation to computer. Unless there are some fabled CRPGs out there that I'm unaware of, where character is all that matters, the '80s CRPGs I remember were all primarily about strategy/tactics and running around in mazes, with the very occasional puzzle or conversation thrown in. They were basically Hero Quest.

Sure, they were all about combat, but combat too can be redelegated to character as much as possible. That's why god invented turns(and devil RTwP). So I don't really see your point here.

Thirith on 10/12/2011 at 17:52

Quote Posted by Koki

Sure, they were all about combat, but combat too can be redelegated to character as much as possible. That's why god invented turns(and devil RTwP). So I don't really see your point here.

My point is this: it's disingenuous, hypocritical or just plain wrong to say that in old-school RPGs "only your character matters", when those CRPGs were just as much about player skill. The main difference is that we're talking about a different skill set that's 'outsourced' from character to player in something like Human Revolution. The notion of a 'pure' (C)RPG where "only your character matters" is a fallacy.