Random thoughts... - TTLG Forums

Anarchic Fox on 5/2/2023 at 02:28

In medias res is great! You start with two urgent tasks, and then lightning strikes. By contrast, Ultima VII's plot is "follow the breadcrumbs" if you're playing it for the first time. There's zero urgency, and when you meet Garriott himself a few hours in, in the guise of Lord British, he says "everything seems fine to me, just look around I guess." Ultima VII's ending is so insubstantial that there's little harm in seeing it spoiled, whereas Serpent Isle's ending is cosmic.

Quote Posted by Sulphur

...We've probably sufficiently deterred anyone who may have been interested from dipping their toe in :D. Job done, if'n you ask me.

Ultima, man. Much like the Grateful Dead, you had to have been there.

demagogue on 5/2/2023 at 04:08

My original experience of Ultima was I (and maybe II) on the C64. They really captured my imagination in a big way. There were a few games that had a kind of "open world", but Ultima was the one that was a living world. And I (think I) even remember thinking Ultima IV was already too newfangled from the original pure experience. (I mean I didn't get it because I didn't have money, but that was probably how I felt okay about it.)

When Ultima Underworld and later Thief & the original Imm Sims came around, I think this was probably true for a lot of us (here) gaming in the '80s, the link was to Origin and the old school Ultimas. There was a way of thinking that came with them.

Actually this is the first time this is occurring to me, but two of the most memorable experiences I've had playing any game were (1) the first time I confronted the guards in I guess it was even Ultima I, or if I stole something and got the fuzz on my back, and they procedurally did their thing. And then (2) the first time I confronted the guards in the foyer of Bafford's manor in Thief. I never made the link between the two before, but they both evoked that spirit from Origin of a living world, where guards weren't just scripted to do X, but they were just a system that worked naturally. You could avoid them, or you could trigger them and have them come after you like a real guard.

It feels quaint describing it now, like kids these days won't appreciate the magic those moments had for me. But I think everyone here, of all people, will know what I'm talking about.

Anarchic Fox on 5/2/2023 at 22:56

Okay, that's the first time I've seen someone advocate Ultima One.

My Looking Glass Moment was visiting a friend's house and watching him playing Thief in Cragscleft. I thought, that isn't a level, that's a place.

demagogue on 5/2/2023 at 23:17

Well the living system part applied to all of the Ultimas. My thoughts about Ultima I was probably around 1988 when that's the only version I had. I wouldn't say that now! XD

Cipheron on 6/2/2023 at 03:25

Quote Posted by Anarchic Fox

I think when talking about whether interfaces are intuitive or not you need to look at the intended audience.

Some people play ASCII roguelikes, or boot up the old Gold Box TSR RPGs. Dwarf Fortress is the modern equivalent of that.

The Worlds of Ultima games are way intuitive if you're used to that stuff.

Sulphur on 6/2/2023 at 04:40

Quote Posted by demagogue

Well the living system part applied to all of the Ultimas. My thoughts about Ultima I was probably around 1988 when that's the only version I had. I wouldn't say that now! XD

Heh, I guess my moment for that with Ultima was around IV/V. You could see the ambition of it all, hobbled by the restrictions of the hardware - but charming, and esoteric, and weird because of it. U7 felt like a revelation because it was so much of what the previous games threatened to do, and now here it was.

Oddly enough, Thief wasn't the first LGS game that made me feel that way about a place feeling tangible - it was Ultima Underworld 1 (technically Blue Sky and not LGS, but tomayto tomahto), which to this day I have not finished because there's something about its perpetually sunless environs that makes me feel an unpleasantness akin to cold despair. Great that a game can evoke that feeling, not so great to marinate in at length.

Twist on 6/2/2023 at 05:13

My first non-Atari gaming memories are of me helping my dad map out the dungeons in Ultima III. The first PC I built was when my dad and I built a system specifically in preparation for Ultima VII and Ultima Underworld. You guys are making me all misty eyed.

Funny little Twist fact: I didn't game much for a few years in the mid-nineties. It was a time of guitars and girls for me. A couple years out of college, I got back into gaming and built another new system. Some demo disc -- I don't recall if it was from a gaming magazine or if it came with a Voodoo card -- had a demo of Thief: The Dark Project. I fell in love it with it right away, but I had no idea it was made by the same people who had made Ultima Underworld. I only learned the LGS/Blue Sky connection when I went to buy TDP and saw the "from the creators of Underworld" (or whatever it said) on the box.

Well, looking back, I think it's kinda funny. :o

Anarchic Fox on 6/2/2023 at 05:44

Quote Posted by Cipheron

Some people play ASCII roguelikes...

Yes. Some people. Somewhere. :sweat:

In my defense, in its latest major update Angband added the Druid class, which can turn into a fox. A fox that shreds orcs like confetti.

Quote Posted by Twist

My first non-Atari gaming memories are of me helping my dad map out the dungeons in Ultima III...

Huh. And here's an Ultima III maven. Now if someone shows up who most loves number two, that will be a miracle.

Ultima I: Demagogue.
Ultima III: Twist.
Ultima IV: Just about everyone who played it first.
Ultima V: Sulphur, Pyrian.
Ultima VI: Me.
Ultima VII/SI: Just about everyone who didn't play IV first.

PigLick on 6/2/2023 at 06:29

No love for Ultima 8?

Anarchic Fox on 6/2/2023 at 06:40

Quote Posted by PigLick

No love for Ultima 8?

It's my second-favorite. Great characters, fascinating world-building, intense revelations, and godawful gameplay.