RavynousHunter on 20/2/2009 at 21:41
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
Well, my smart friend, then who makes the law? The people or the government?
Of course the government makes the laws, that's a given. However, the government must at least respect and honor the rights of its people, otherwise those people will probably revolt, or at least cause a massive wave of dissent through the nation that would eventually boil over into a revolution or civil war.
In the end, the government must work for the people, and if it doesn't, the people have the right to dismantle that government, with force if need be.
Then again, we're going
way off topic here.
fett on 20/2/2009 at 23:03
Quote Posted by RavynousHunter
In the end, the government must work for the people, and if it doesn't, the people have the right to dismantle that government, with force if need be.
See? No matter how liberal I may have become in the last few years about...everything, this is one thing with which I totally agree. There's always this lurking fear in the back of my mind--what if the government became totalitarian? How would we combat that? Not such an abstract question after watching the Bush/Cheney show over the last eight years, is it?
The obvious answer is with force, which means firearms. I just can't see past this - is there something I'm missing? What other means of dismantling the government would we have? Isn't this how we broke free from Britain to begin with?
Thirith on 20/2/2009 at 23:07
Quote Posted by Koki
Then don't have children. The more children, the more pedophiles.
I'm sorry, but are you completely stupid?
You said that you believed there were as many gun nuts in a country where people are free to carry guns as in countries where this wasn't the case. I said that I believed there was a correlation between the extent to which guns are a part of a culture and the percentage of gun nuts.
How you get from that - my opinion that you're wrong about the number of gun nuts in countries where guns are freely available and in other countries - to your statement is pretty much beyond me.
D'Juhn Keep on 21/2/2009 at 00:03
Quote Posted by fett
See? No matter how liberal I may have become in the last few years about...everything, this is one thing with which I totally agree. There's always this lurking fear in the back of my mind--what if the government became totalitarian?
I'm far more worried about a zombie uprising. We don't have any guns in the UK and not many people have Dire Straits LPs. We're screwed!
Kolya on 21/2/2009 at 01:02
People in many countries have managed to overthrow governments peacefully. Or even forcefully despite the general population not being armed. Somehow this never occurs to certain people which is why we call them gun nuts.
Besides, if there ever was a time to overthrow your government, then you just missed it. No one even tried to stop Bush from ruining the world and your own country, so what do you need guns for then? I guess the answer will come when someone caps Obama.
fett on 21/2/2009 at 02:00
Specifically where has this happened though (not being a dick here - I seriously want to know)? I'm looking at places like Tibet and South Africa (that only took, what, 30 years?) and wondering where this happens in a timely and peaceful manner.
As for Bush, I think by the time everyone realized fully what was happening, we knew his time was short. No point overthrowing a system that essentially works, and in which there is a real chance for change in the near future.
Kolya on 21/2/2009 at 02:27
The first revolution ever to bear the name 'revolution' was the Glorious Revolution in England 1688, when royal absolutism came to an end, also called the Bloodless Revolution.
During the Portuguese Carnation Revolution 1974 no blood was shed.
Incidentally a peaceful revolution also happened in the country I live in, Germany, in 1989.
And you may remember all of the former eastern block falling apart and converting to democracies? While these revolutions weren't all bloodless, in none of these countries were people allowed to have guns.
-> (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution) Colour revolutions
I'm sure there are many more examples, but you can read it up on wikipedia or any history book yourself. It's not too surprising anyway, that many revolutions didn't need guns because governments tend to be a much smaller group of people than the people. Of course they have an army at their hand, but these soldiers are your own sons after all. So if you trust the majority of Americans not to submit to totalitarism then there's nothing to worry about and everyone can give up their guns and go home. KTHNX.
fett on 21/2/2009 at 03:33
Good points all. I guess the term 'revolution' is synonymous with 'bloodshed' in my mind - obviously something I should clear up. Germany IS a great example of bloodless revolution. Not as familiar with some of the others (recent history being my weakest suit), but I'll read up for sure.
Muzman on 21/2/2009 at 03:58
Quote Posted by dethtoll
This is why we can't have nice things.
I was just getting my toadying ready for our new Gay OverLords (I really didn't want to say sucking up there).
Anyway. Also look up Czechoslovakia and when they tossed out Milosevic (in whatever country he was running at the time. Let's call it the former Yugoslavia or some of it)
