Radiant A.I. ? - by Aerothorn
Navyhacker006 on 8/4/2006 at 23:50
I'd start comparing CPU speeds/Memory. It may be related to Advent Rising's graphics - the better hardware you have, the better it looks, but there's no options to force the change on lower-end systems.
I think that made sense.
RyushiBlade on 8/4/2006 at 23:52
I haven't seen any of this, 'cept the working in the garden bit. I'd rather have your version of broken than mine...
Maybe when I create a thief character and spend more time inside cities, I'll see more stuff.
Fig455 on 9/4/2006 at 02:39
Quote:
I was hoping the NPCs would go on their daily lives as well as Ultima VII. Made in the 90s or something.
In there the blacksmith would get up, eat, go to work, actually make stuff(get iron, heat it up, hammer it, cool it down, heat it up, repeat ad nausiem), until it was time to go to the bar, then they'd go home and sleep. That's the lowest NPC basically. They often had special routines.
In Oblivion, the NPC will get up, go to work, stand there for 13 hours, then go home and go to bed.
Tuco....you play Gothic? It was similar. Even had a Blacksmith that was exactly as you decribed. WAY better townsfolk. Conversations weren't RIDICULOUSLY stilted either.
ignatios on 9/4/2006 at 03:37
Quote Posted by Tuco
Some NPCs in Skingard use the tools for their wine process. But it's not as deep as U7.
It's also not as scripted as U7. The Oblivion NPCs are generally making their own decisions, defaulting to a schedule when they have no other pressing needs. The people in U7 were entirely scripted. Different approaches for different effects.
Don't get me wrong; the feeling of "life" in Oblivion could be improved a lot (they way they just stand around is
retarded), but what's there is a good baseline.
Martek on 9/4/2006 at 05:27
Quote Posted by Fig455
This is why I was so pissed. The AI is just ridiculous here. We were promised so much more. Guess I am a sucker, and should stop believing advertising.
The AI was flawed, but I would not call it ridiculous. It does some things well and needs work in others. Some of the incidents it generates border on the ridiculous but on the whole it is a nice effort.
Granted, I didn't have it all hyped up to the stratosphere in my mind. But then, I don't get that way about much of anything in advertising. Thus I am not judging the AI against my own over-inflated expectations like some. Instead, I'm judging it against other games I've played and it isn't bad in comparison. I've seen lots worse, and can't offhand think of one obviously "better" that had the same scope as Oblivions. With a little work, I think it has great potential.
Cheers,
Martek
Tuco on 9/4/2006 at 05:45
Quote:
It's also not as scripted as U7. The Oblivion NPCs are generally making their own decisions, defaulting to a schedule when they have no other pressing needs.
You're overestimating the power of their AI / need combination, and are inferring a greater seperation of RAI and scripted action than it warrants. Whatever system they used was either way too weak to implement what they wanted, or they were just too lazy(ran out of time) to do what they wanted with it.
What I'd like to know, is how much work it would be to implement NPC behavior like the chick in the E3 demonstration.
Was this a product of the RAI that was used to its fullest? Or was it merely a scripted event? Either way makes little difference to me, but the future of PC RPGs, both online and offline, is a system that RAI was advertised to be, just implemented more fully.
Fig455 on 9/4/2006 at 09:12
Quote Posted by Martek
The AI was flawed, but I would not call it ridiculous. It does some things well and needs work in others.
ok, so these conversations where they go something like this:
"Oh, it's you."
"HI THERE"
"I saw a mudcrab the other day"
"Disgusting"
"Goodbye"
"so long"
"Oh hello"
"Hi there"
"So, any word from the other provinces"
"I hear tell syndicates of wizards......"
"Bye"
"so long"
all said without a moments hesitation between goodbye and the second set of hellos, are just fine then. And characters that just have been witnessed spending their day doing nothing but getting up, going to the inn, and staring dead at the wall for 6 hours, before returning home to go to bed, are too. The problem is, this is the STANDARD, rather than the exception.
Look to GTA:San Andreas for random street convos done right. They worked WAY better. In fact, did ANY of you (other than tuco and Ryushi) even WATCH that E3 vid ( I linked to it)? That scenario was entirely impossible. In fact, it's been reported that it was SCRIPTED. Meaning, NOTHING resembling that series of events could come out of the game in it's current state.
Bethesda SCRIPTED a slick series of events to get us all salivating. NPC's don't fill dog dishes. The game just respawns them in. I have seen them drop in late when re-entering a room I had previously stolen one from. They don't invite you to kick it w/them. None of that. I really need to say:I love this game. I have about 100+ hours in it. BUT, I really don't think the AI works well AT ALL. In combat, at work, at play, and talking, even the ridiculous pickpocketing and stealing they do, is all goofy upon execution. I am sorry, maybe I played too much Gothic and Gothic 2. Those just felt a ton more believable, and that was years ago.
Komag on 9/4/2006 at 09:44
I think you have valid points, but that you're exaggerating the blandness of Oblivion's AIs whilst forgetting all the endless hours of Gothic's AIs standing/sitting around doing just as much nothingness, if not more, than Oblivion's AIs.
I'm a huge fan of Gothic (I and II), and I think its conversations are the best of any game, but I feel that Oblivion's radiant system is more flexible than Gothic's or any other game's, so while the execution may not be fully realized, it was realized pretty well, and there is a LOT more potential built in.
Convict on 9/4/2006 at 11:05
If there's lots of potential built in then maybe all it needs is some capable people to create proper conversation text and mod the ai to do stuff.
Just sayin.
Martek on 9/4/2006 at 15:33
Quote Posted by Fig455
ok, so these conversations where they go something like this:
"Oh, it's you."
"HI THERE"
"I saw a mudcrab the other day"
"Disgusting"
"Goodbye"
"so long"
"Oh hello"
"Hi there"
"So, any word from the other provinces"
"I hear tell syndicates of wizards......"
"Bye"
"so long"
all said without a moments hesitation between goodbye and the second set of hellos, are just fine then.
Who said they were fine then? I agreed there are flaws and also said in the same post, "Some of the incidents it generates border on the ridiculous...". Do you just like being an asshat to make your points?
Martek
