Vernon on 9/1/2010 at 19:57

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half-baked youtube videos are pretty much the modern equivalent of a phd or lifelong body of research into matters such as racism

Scots Taffer on 12/1/2010 at 01:34

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Speaking as a British expat living in Australia for over four years now, I can say that racism is a very complicated issue here and it's not as simple as stereotypes and derogatory phrases.

There's the deep-seated problems regarding Aboriginal communities, both in their abhorrent treatment in the past and how that has contributed to their troubled position in modern society, but beyond that, there's also issues with how Australia is perceived internationally and I believe much of that is due to Australia's cultural development being very parochial in nature.

There is cultural and ethnic diversity in Australia (it seems like around half the population is migrants of every colour, creed and race), but the culture has always been rooted in a pride for all things Australian. The phrase if you don't love it, fuck off springs to mind and is very present in the everyday of Australian life.

Now to a lot of people that's racist because it enforces one way of living over another, but it couldn't be anything further from the truth, it's simply a protection of Australian culture. For example, they are very intolerant of Imam's who seek to prescribe their views onto Australian society seeking change and there is much outcry whenever their views are given any publicity in the press. I think this is perfectly legitimate, because while it may be commonplace in Iran for women to cover themselves from head to toe in an act of religious or social subservience and shame, it is not considered to be in any way acceptable to tell women what to wear or how to act (outside of social norms and bloody advertising, of course) and so they are perfectly within their rights to express dissent as long as it stays within the bounds of acceptable discourse. That is to say, it's perfectly fine to say: keep your regressive views about sexual politics in Iran and not: take your Koran back to the desert you camel-rooting towel-head.

At what point does respecting the differences in culture and wishing for your own ideals to be upheld become racist?

That's what I think the UK got wrong when the Political Correctness movement "went mad". It got confused between racism and upholding principles of British culture (what culture? haw haw haw). Of course, that could have been further complicated by Britain's former Empire and legacy of bloody imperialism, but really, that's just white man guilt syndrome and besides the point.

That doesn't complicate things so much down here. There's a clear delineation between the issues of the past (the stolen generation, Aboriginal slaughter etc) and the problems of the present (Cronulla riots, etc) - there's no white man guilt over the actions of the forefathers of Australia in everyday life (however it is carried on the shoulders of the Australian government).

When Britain got influxes of ethnicity, they allowed for the cultures to incorporate their unique elements into their everyday life in Britain (building of mosques, etc) but they also allowed that to expand into the British culture and in certain instances, overwhelm it. That's not say that British culture couldn't (or hasn't) embrace (or be enriched by) diversity but there was a point at which the lines became blurred and all of a sudden, long held institutions became questioned for their legitimacy.

For those who think that it's a load of tosh and that political correctness did not "go mad" - consider a sensible and rational society questioning the name "blackboard" for its potential racial impact. Christ almighty. It's the fucking colour black and it's a board. If you're going to suggest that by its name it is racist then that implies that the very colour black holds a negative connotation - which is even more racist, in my opinion. If there was evidence to suggest that blackboards were called such because (say) back in the day they were used to chalk up the current sale prices of African slaves, then FUCK YES, it probably has some merit in being reviewed but if it's because when a white person says the word "blackboard" there's something pejorative at work, then there's clearly some issues.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic, the issue here is with Australia and racism.

There is a very odd thing at work here in that (by and large) racial slurs are fairly commonplace and considered socially acceptable. I found this quite shocking when I first arrived to hear people use words like "wogs" but then I realised that every racial group uses them equally. Greeks describe themselves as "wogs". I had two Sri Lankan colleagues in my office refer to themselves and others in their ethnicity as "Curries". Now is this to say that the culture is inherently racist?

Let's take a look at the definition:



I've never found there to be any hatred present in the terms when I've heard them said, that's not to say that they couldn't be employed hatefully or in an effort to segregate society.

But as I said above, at what point does respecting other cultures and upholding our own do that automatically? There can be reasonable integration of cultures and ideals but there comes a point where the culture that's allowing the influences to flow in puts up a barrier to protect its own heritage.

I think it's a very complicated subject and I still haven't quite totally come to terms with it.

icemann on 12/1/2010 at 09:02

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Scots Taffer: Completely agree with your words. Here yes we call europeans wogs, the brittish pommies, indians/sri lankans/pakastani's as curries etc but its all in a non derogatory manner and not used offensively in the majority of cases.

Its all in the intent. These people are our friends, relatives and neighbours. And yeah. Not much else to say.

SubJeff on 12/1/2010 at 23:21

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Yeah Scots, well said.

I think that was a perfectly good example fett. I've relayed this tale before but... When I was at school in Malawi all the blacks were niggers and all the whites were honkeys and everyone called everyone else whichever and no one gave a crap. But holy shit you knew the white teachers at school better not hear you.


Yeah, screw any German anti-fascists! It don't fly Hanse, mein Got! What the shit kind of nonsense logic is this? :rolleyes:

heywood on 13/1/2010 at 04:48

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I hear it's a compliment, if you use that in bed...