Hatching-a-plan on 25/10/2007 at 18:07
No, I'm not going to throw it away. I may do some major overhaul, I may just say eff it and write off having windows that you can mantle into. Luckily I was smart and hadn't done anything with texturing so I mean it really won't make that large a dent in things. Apparently you can use a ladder to crawl into crawl spaces. Although I'm not sure what you mean by not using BSP to make windows. I mean all I did was just use a subtract brush to make a space for a window to go. In the end I may just make it all out of BSP then make it into a mesh. Although thats one thing I'm still unsure about. I mean how exactly does making meshes from BSP work?
Beleg Cúthalion on 25/10/2007 at 19:19
And I ask myself...how to make windows when not by subtracting? Or do you just refer to windows in general, which should be smeshes since you won't reach them anyway? And only the few "interactive" ones as BSPs?
Hatching-a-plan on 25/10/2007 at 19:39
Well the point was to have window sills and cushion areas near the windows where people could sit and look out the window as an architectural feature. As well as making custom window shapes without having to go through the process of making custom static meshes. On top of that, having the option of movable windows as well as movable windows in the new custom shapes.
str8g8 on 26/10/2007 at 11:16
Iif windows are interactive, you will have to use bsp. If they are just eye candy, they would be better off as simple meshes placed on the wall. However you might still be able to justify some bsp subtraction if they are at eye level, as opposed to out of the way on the top story in a distant corner of the map.
I think there is a totally different mindset from building stuff in dromed to T3. In dromed a lot of modelling was done in the editor. In T3, everything is static meshes, so that the bsp is kept relatively simple. Unfortunately it can be tough to create custom static meshes - this is the biggest hurdle in T3 modding imo.
Also, for the record, there is now way of creating smeshes from bsp a la unreal.
Ziemanskye on 26/10/2007 at 17:10
Quote Posted by str8g8
Iif windows are interactive, you will have to use bsp.
You sure about that? I haven't tried having any interactive windows, but I will admit I though they'd have to be smeshes. Curious - I was fairly sure that movers didn't work in Flesh, though since most of what I've done in T3Ed is static eye-candy, that's hardly surprising I'd not know for certain.
Otherwise, if you're cutting a hole in the wall you can see out of, it's either BSP, or BSP and Smesh. One way or another, there's a requirement of actually cutting a hole through the wall.
But, because there's a brush vertex limit (it's quite high, but does exist), and because of the BSP-holes that this engine is unusually prone too, it really is best to make every window you can be a smesh placed against a solid flat surface.
Windowsills and cushions you could set to semi-solid additive brushes to reduce the chance of them causing problems though, so that's fine. Though like str8g8 says, you can't turn BSP into brushes, at least not without going through a rather boring and labourious process through a half-dozen programs (when it'd be quicker just to take measurements and rebuild in your modelling program for most thigns anyway)
Beleg Cúthalion on 28/10/2007 at 19:11
Since we're already talking about that: I have built a little street with a small bridge and some walls around, meant to be TDP-like (so you can climb everywhere, well, I guess you know, ah, I made a picture yesterday: (
http://www.eidosforum.de/showthread.php?p=559164#post559164) clicky) and it already consists of about twenty subtract brushes (or BSP? What's the differences since Ziemanskye said
"you can't turn BSP into brushes"...?), i.e. the same number that str8g8 had in his
whole Bridge exterieur. That worried me, although I know that these are two different styles of constructing things.
So I wanted to replace the upper subtract brushes with greater ones using
intersect (wanted to remove/intersect that triangular roof you can see in the pic from the builder brush) and it gave me a VIKTORIA ERROR with Ignore, Debug, Exit and so on. I tried it with placing the builder brush into different subtracted brushes and everything was fine. :confused:
Second, what's the matter with semi-solid? I just read a thread where Ziemanskye says that it's the "secure way" of adding brushes that could cause BSP errors, although they are not in the game somehow, since semi-solid is Flesh and the rest ist Unreal. Is it more than that?
PS: Please tell me if my sentences appear too German. We have a talent for nested sentences, Mark Twain already wrote stories about that and I always juggle with brackets and commas...
CrackedGear on 28/10/2007 at 19:42
In my experience t3ed gets a little jittery any time the meshes aren't all perfect cubes. Its hard to say what you're doing wrong, since this leaves the land of mathematics and wanders into voodoo. With that in mind I can point out a few simple charms and runes to paint on your monitor that may help.
In the lower right you have what looks like an arched passageway, with a arch static mesh at either end. I would suggest getting rid of the curved ceiling, since circular brushes tend to freak out. there are many static meshes under Arches or Vaults that use can use for the tunnel ceiling.
Also try to avoid using intersect and de-intersect. When you cut something by intersecting it, its up to the editor to determine where the faces go, and it likes to screw up and you end up in bsp-hole hell. Use the 2d-shape editor instead and scale it down to whatever size you need.
These are probably written down elsewhere in a tutorial, but I'm too lazy to look for it.
Beleg Cúthalion on 28/10/2007 at 20:49
The Smeshes are only a little test and I built the crossing (!) rounded archways just to see if there would be bugs again, but it looks fine now. Anyway, I can change it quite quickly. About the (de)intersecting...it was advised to do so before subtracting/adding, but I don't know if you can do it with both builder brush and BSPs that are already in the level. I only did it the first way which appeared to me logical.
PS: (Parts of) The Unreal-Planet page is (are) offline somehow, so I only checked the wikis and tutorials I could find; but these were usually introductions and not too detailed in e.g. what will happen with different kinds of brush alignment and so on...
