Hatching-a-plan on 23/10/2007 at 13:34
What I mean by "climbing" is when Garrett pulls himself up on a ledge. Not wall climbing. With that out of the way lets begin. I've been running a test map for the past few hours, figuring out the dimensions for Garrett within the editor ie a 4 unit tall 2 unit wide hallway is something you can walk through while crouched etc etc. However I've run across a problem. At the moment I have a map drawn out on graph paper, however I've been doing the tests to figure out how this will translate into the game and so far so good, but the problem I've run into is I can't figure out the maximum height that Garrett can "climb". I looked at the Castle1.unr map cause I know that in the first part of that map there is that one area that you can "climb". I figured out it was 4 units tall. Thats a starting point certainly but I'd rather my windows (as this is what all of this research is being done for) where a bit on the higher side.
Heres what I did. I made two large rooms, then I made a box that was 4 units wide (which is big enough to fix Garrett) by 8 units tall (again big enough to allow Garrett to pass) by 4 units thick then I set it so that it was 4 units off the ground (according to Castle1.unr a correct height off the ground to allow Garrett to "climb"), so what I ended up with is a hole between the two boxes big enough to fit a doorway but that was 4 units up off the ground, I then went ingame and tested it. I would walk up to the window and jump and hold, but all Garrett would do is jump he refused to grab the ledge and pull himself up. Now all I have done so far with the lvl is make some rooms and some windows and put some lights in (the generic "add light" ones) and I have a starting point (the actor < marker < keypoint < navigationpoint < playerstart one) so as far as I can tell there is nothing I have missing. All of that to ask this:
A.) Does anyone know why Garrett won't pull his fat ass into that window?
B.) What is the minimum/maximum height off the ground that one could put something but that Garrett would still be able to "climb" it?
Hatching-a-plan on 23/10/2007 at 17:51
Very nice, however I still have a question. He relates all of that in inches vs uu units. Now what I was looking at was the default settings and the grid. So in other words when I said 4 units I was talking about 4 squares on the default grid. How do I convert all of that into something I can understand, or can I convert the grid to match what he's talking about?
Edit: Nvm, seems to me that the default grid is 1 square = 1'. Correct me if I'm wrong? All of this however still leaves me with the nagging question of why Garrett won't mantle (i'm guessing thats the correct word for it) when I play test my maps.
Beleg Cúthalion on 23/10/2007 at 19:10
Afaik with grid size 16 every square should be one "ingame" foot. :weird: Not completely sure right now, but I assume...yes, now I am sure. :D
So "player mantle height 6'..." would mean 6 squares with grid size 16. With respect to the oversized levels (8 feet high doors, that don't really look so big ingame) I made my personal translation that says one "real" meter is four feet long (and not three and something), so that a door would be two meters high again. I'm not really used to feet; that's why I did it that way.
Hatching-a-plan on 23/10/2007 at 20:08
yea, I read the post you linked me a few times and I figured it out. I still have no idea why Garrett won't mantel though. Is there something I need to set up in the level properties before he will mantle? Cause I did notice that he doesn't have a health bar, and last time I was using the editor when I play tested things he did have a health bar. So something I'm sure is missing from my lvl somewhere.
CrackedGear on 23/10/2007 at 21:42
I've got a window on my map thats 4x8 and is 10 feet off the ground, and garrett can get through that no problem, so maybe try something higher. the other thing i can suggest is that if you're using any static meshes for windows to try getting rid of those, as the physics hulls do odd things. I noticed that in the official maps in some cases they wouldn't even use a window mesh, just a big hole with some shutters in front of it.
nomad of the pacific on 24/10/2007 at 03:02
Window mesh = BAD! If you want to use one, set Physics Hull to none. Also, make sure the area you want him to climb onto is large enough. If it's too small, he won't mantle.
Ziemanskye on 24/10/2007 at 17:48
I also think (thuough I'm not entirely sure) there's problems with mantling into small spaces: if it's not 128UU (8`, 2m, whatever) high then it could cause problems - especially I think if the gap isn't high enough off the ground relative to the starting floor.
Hatching-a-plan on 25/10/2007 at 17:04
HMMMMMMMM, looks like I was wrong. I made a 8' tall 4' wide 8' deep hole just to test and up he went. It was 6' off the ground. *sigh* that leaves me with a lvl without windows that can be mantled into. Oh well. As for using meshes for windows, I'm used to dromed and other programs like that where the only way to make windows was using bsp. Even the windows that are just there for looks I've done with BSP.
Looks like its back to the drawing board for me then, and me with a lvl completely BSP'd. This could really put a damper on things if I find out that I can't climb a ladder into a crawl space.:tsktsk:
Ziemanskye on 25/10/2007 at 17:55
So you're going to throw your BSP away because of a gap you were probably looking at from the wrong angle to mantle into (seriously, game is weird about where you have to look for mantling to work, for me at least), when at 96 units off the ground all you need is a sturdy plant or a conveniently placed barrel or, you know, *something* and it's no longer a problem.
Ladders into crawlspaces, I've never tried, so I'll not comment.
BSP windows? Try to avoid it - too much BSP tends to start ripping inconvenient holes in the level after a while, and you can reduce the damage from window alcoves by making it semi-solid because they're subtractive. (And if they're not, that's having to semi a whole wall around it, which isn't good either!) That's not to say you can't do it, just don't rely on it as your singular way of making windows is all.
Still, it is a good example of why you shouldn't plan a level based on a scale map, without knowing the engine can definately do what you draw anyway. You always need that little bit more wriggle room in the design than you anticipate.
