Questions for Eidos M's Community Manager

Chade on 22/8/2013 at 00:54

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

Why on earth [am I] not [in a position to complain about people giving me the benefit of the doubt]? ... I just thought he wasn't being clear or was purposely avoiding answering.

Because you do it too. Hence our entire argument for the last few pages.

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

What is an "away bucket"?

Ok, that's fair.

MT originally said that you swoop when moving away from the ledge. You questioned whether that meant swooping sideways worked, based around the fact (I'd call it a technicality in this context) that moving sideways is not moving away from the ledge. MT then quoted you asking about swooping sideways, and said "you mean swooping away, like I already told you about?" (or words to that effect).

At that point, you should have at least been considering the possibility that MT was genuinely trying to answer your questions and simply wasn't differentiating between "away" and "sideways". And yes, he should have considered the possibility that you genuinely didn't think his answer was sufficient.

Again, most people aren't dumb. And, for that matter, most people aren't conversing in bad faith. (People do get emotional, though.)

SubJeff on 22/8/2013 at 01:25

Quote Posted by Chade

Because you do it too. Hence our entire argument for the last few pages.

This is not an argument. I asked plainly and clearly. Why should he think I'm doing anything otherwise?

Quote:

MT then quoted you asking about swooping sideways, and said "you mean swooping away, like I already told you about?" (or words to that effect).

No.

He said

Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512

You mean by pointing the swoop away from the ledge, like I told you twice? You do understand which direction "forward" is, right?

and

Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512

Again, if you point the swoop away from the ledge, you'll swoop. If you're looking at the ledge and standing still/moving towards it, you'll climb it. Looking at the ledge, not looking at the wall below the ledge. Combine that with the fact you have to have Garrett within reach of the ledge.

Never once did he clarify swooping sidewards. You cannot say "words to that effect" in this context as "pointing" away (I assume he means facing away) is not the same as "not facing away but moving sidewards".

Quote:

At that point, you should have at least been considering the possibility that MT was genuinely trying to answer your questions and simply wasn't differentiating between "away" and "sideways".

Why? There was no clarity, especially as he kept on going on about "pointing" the swoop. And it makes a lot of difference to how the game plays.

Chade on 22/8/2013 at 02:00

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

This is not an argument. I asked plainly and clearly. Why should he think I'm doing anything otherwise?

I was justifying why you are not in a position to complain about people assuming the worst.

And for the record, my first impression was also that you were being deliberately difficult. I considered it so obvious what he meant, it took a second read to realize that you could be genuinely confused.

Quote Posted by Subjective Effect

You aren't responding to my argument at all! The fact that he had quoted you saying "swooping sideways" is kind the whole point, not just something you can ignore.

The whole argument is that he's quoting your question about swooping sideways and saying that his response on swooping away answers your question. There are only two possible explanations for his response: either he can't read, or he's using "away" to include "sideways". That's two possibilities, and only one of them is reasonable.

Dia on 22/8/2013 at 02:12

Quote Posted by b1skit

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but they're your sour grapes to enjoy if you want. But since you still choose to spend much of your time browsing and posting around here - in a forum dedicated to a game, company and community you clearly can't stand - thanks! :thumb:

Whoa. Way to twist things there, b1skit. But evidently that's part of your job; it's part of what you get paid to do, afterall. I've never said I couldn't stand EM, I just intensely dislike what they're doing to T4, all the while calling it a 'true Thief game'. Another load of horsecrap. But wait; I thought you were soliciting opinions and suggestions from TTLG Thief fans and that's precisely what I've been doing, along with quite a few other fellow Taffers. In other threads I've posted each and every doubt/dislike I've had regarding T4, along with suggestions, just like so may other TTLG members. Something most of us started doing (with lots of honey, btw, not that it got us anywhere) shortly after EM announced it was creating THI4F, you know, just before the four-year-long blackout by EM of any and all THI4F information? It does eventually grate on one's nerves to be told repeatedly, 'We're listening, no, really!', only to find out that the opposite is true. Continually trying to shout down those of us who are not happy with more than a few 'new' aspects EM has integrated into their Thief reboot wasn't working, so now you're going to try casting aspersions on the characters of any Taffers who continue to protest what EM is doing to T4 with this whole 'sour grapes' thing? Really? Oh well, carry on. EM certainly can't fault you for not trying to do your job here. I'm sure you receive kudos all the time for being an exemplary employee.

Btw, last time I looked, this forum was dedicated to T4, not EM - you've got the wrong website for the latter type of 'dedication', hon. Also, in case you haven't noticed, more than a few Taffers here have suggested we change the title of the T4 forum from 'anticipation' to 'apprehension'. ;) And yes; as a matter of fact I have been 'browsing and posting around here' for quite awhile (because of my decade-long love affair with TDP & TMA, afterall), though I wouldn't expect you to know that since you've only been a TTLG member for such a short time.

Peace.

Quote Posted by jay pettitt

I never knew Dia couldn't stand Looking Glass Studios.

demagogue on 22/8/2013 at 02:19

Edit -- ninja'd by Dia. phone typing is slow!

I think we're swaying from the topic some since you guys aren't actually arguing about jumping & swooping anymore. We know what he meant now. But there's still discussion to be had on it.

What we might use is some careful viewing of the gameplay video to see if it gives any feel for how the contextual controls play out.

SubJeff on 22/8/2013 at 02:23

Quote Posted by Chade

I was justifying why you are not in a position to complain about people assuming the worst.

But I am. I have no history with MT, he should take it as straight.

Quote:

This is utter, utter bullsh!t.

He "corrects" me. I say "What if I want to swoop sideways" and he says "You mean by pointing the swoop away from the ledge, like I told you twice?"

No, no that's NOT what I mean.

I'm supposed to take it that he's clarifying things for me WHEN HE WON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THE SITUATION I'M DESCRIBING AND INSTEAD CHOOSE TO CORRECT ME AND DESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENS IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION?

This is why I don't bother with you Chade. You don't seem to have a coherent thought in your head. I don't challenge you on your posts because they are just chaff.

Chade on 22/8/2013 at 02:41

What you just described in three paragraphs of drama, bold, and all-caps, is what I described as "he can't read". That's merely one of the two possibilities I described. Can you see that?

demagogue on 22/8/2013 at 03:01

This has turned into a personal argument between you two guys that's not about the game anymore, so could you at least take it to PMs if you want to continue it?

Edit: Or at least bring it back around to arguing about the game & mechanics again. It's fine to argue, but this seems to have run its course for a thread with diminishing returns...

samIamsad on 22/8/2013 at 03:58

In an attempt to steer this back on topic, is it known whether the scripted flee and chase sequences as seen in the E3 demo are handled like a regular feature in the game? I'm asking because one of the more amusing thingamabobs published so far about Thief was this video from GameStar post E3: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYRcti4IqQw)

I found the ending of it a bit telling. So the guys from Eidos and Square Enix had shown the game around, the mission that has also seen coverage from PC Gamer in their hands on amongst coverage from other outlets, and GameStar's editor noticed something that appeared a bit suspicious to him, put that way. It isn't known how many missions will work like this in the finished game, but apparently the developers want to "spice things up" multiple times like this from the sound of it. Anyway, this is one mission that ends with a climax that has Garrett fleeing from the place of theft, burning bridges involved and everything (see every article that picked up on that already). The thing is... this is entirely scripted, no matter how you played previously, whether you reached the mission's goal (stealing an amulet, it seems) unnoticed or whether you attracted plentiful attention and everyone knew of the theft, at the end of it all, it's the alarm bells suddenly ringing and Garrett being chased either way.

When GameStar's editor asked one of the designers whether this wouldn't defeat the entire purpose of what the player put time into beforehand, and the game, well, being Thief, he was like: "Oh! That's a very good question!" As if they hadn't thought about it themselves.

Mind, in the end the editor still assured he thought Thief to be one of the more interesting games at this year's E3. But seriously? :D

Chade on 22/8/2013 at 04:14

The scripted burning bridge section isn't from the same mission as the mansion. It's a different mission entirely. Off the top of my head I don't think we know whether the burning bridge section is a standalone mission, or whether there is some stealth section leading up to it. (And does it really matter whether the stealth leading up to it is part of the same mission or not?)