b1skit on 21/8/2013 at 16:31
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
b1skit - As to reports by the press; they had limited time with the game and so may not have discovered all the potential issues that the gameplay could have. And the
only reason this comes up is because it's Goddamn THIEF that's being rebooted and the old controls are just. so. perfect.
Very true. And by that same logic, it's also true that they might not have discovered all of the excellent gameplay potential, either.
I agree with you on the classic controls being perfect, in the context of the classic Thief games. Eidos-Montreal's Thief is not a 1:1 remake, so it only makes sense that the controls aren't 1:1 either - and this certainly doesn't mean that they're not perfect within the new context of Eidos-Montreal's Thief.
Quote Posted by Brethren
I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere, but is Swoop unlimited? Can you just Swoop Swoop Swoop through a level? If it's a finite thing, what is that based on and how is it regulated?
I guess I don't really get Swoop as a whole - seems like it's supposed to just be a quick, controlled sprint. If so, why not just let the player run/walk wherever they choose?
No, it's not. It's still in tuning at this point - I've personally seen iterations everywhere from where it's totally unlimited and spammable (which we can all agree, is not how it should be), to it being highly limited to the point I was nervous to use it in case I wasted it. The team is actively balancing it right now - they've been hosting regular playtest sessions lately (I sit right next to the playtest labs, coincidentally).
I suspect the final implementation will be some sort of 'stamina' system that limits your swoops in a set period of time, although please be clear that this is only my guess.
Morphi on 21/8/2013 at 16:33
Quote Posted by b1skit
Yep - this is correct. Thanks Al.
Hey b1skit, what about releasing a demo of the game? That would be the best way to persuade the critics that it works so flawlessly. Don't you agree? :)
After all the Thief 2 Demo convinced me to buy the game...
New Horizon on 21/8/2013 at 16:36
Quote Posted by b1skit
Some press also reported that the mansion was on fire when the played the game - which was categorically false (it was a bridge that looked nothing like a mansion, as confirmed by dozens of other outlets). But believe what you want to believe - I can only tell you what I know.
To be fair, wasn't the level edited in some way to cut to the bridge scene? Given the limited time folks have actually had to try this thing out, it's probably an easy mistake to make. It's not like anyone has had any real time to sit down and really get into the game. I test for a living and at work I could easily spend 45 minutes to an hour just looking at the menus alone....and longer depending on the complexity.
What might help is to invite a few veteran players and fan mission designers from the community and allow them to just sit and play the game for 5 or 6 hours. Give them time to get over the shock of what is different and really try the systems out. If they warm up to some things but still take issue with others after having that much time, then the devs might reconsider their stance on those areas.
b1skit on 21/8/2013 at 16:49
Quote Posted by New Horizon
I test for a living and at work I could easily spend 45 minutes to an hour just looking at the menus alone....and longer depending on the complexity.
You're in QA? Awesome - I was a tester for years. IMO the best devs were the guys who started in QA. Who do you work for?
Starker on 21/8/2013 at 17:18
Quote Posted by SneakyJack
I obviously know the difference. It all goes back to Brethren whining about the developers not listening to people. I'm trying to lay out reasons why they've probably been even less likely to listen. Because people can't express themselves without coming across as childish and entitled morons lately. Rarely does any of it have any constructive purpose anymore nor does it help solve the problems people are complaining about with better options. It's just concentrated whining.
Right, because it worked out so well when we were constructive. Why do you think they will start listening to us now that there's 6 months left until release? Maybe people are a little bit tired of throwing their constructive suggestions at a wall of silence for
years. Yes, sometimes people here vent a little and sometimes they might even use *gasp* sarcasm, jokes and mockery, but at the end of the day, this is a LGS fanclub. Is it such a big surprise that it supports LGS's design philosophies and is critical of a game that is made by a different company and takes a very different direction? With two very minor exceptions I have not liked a single thing that EM has shown us and, what's more, I have disliked a number of things. Should I not voice my opinion and say what I think about those changes?
New Horizon on 21/8/2013 at 17:56
Quote Posted by b1skit
You're in QA? Awesome - I was a tester for years. IMO the best devs were the guys who started in QA. Who do you work for?
I work at a place called SculpinQA. I could be working at the EA studio here in town but in terms of job security(not having to worry about a game selling poorly), I really like where I am. We get to test a wide variety of games on Windows, Mac, different consoles and pretty much every phone and tablet on the market. Great place.
SneakyJack on 21/8/2013 at 17:59
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Also, I don't remember TTLG's Thief IV Anticipation moderators behaving in any such way.
Your selective memory must have missed the post I quoted that originally began the discussion where Fett looks to have lost his mind directly toward an employee of the studio. Unless you're saying this subforum doesn't have specific moderators or he's not moderator of this subforum in particular or whatever other strawman we're tossing into the mix. Regardless, I'll let everyone get back to their regularly scheduled woe is me insular circle jerk about how the sky is falling because it does no good to try to offer a perspective from the other side when it's obviously just one big pile-on in the favor of doom and gloom here. One sided discussions are boring and everything in this anticipation subforum has been a chore to read for a while now. I've only bothered because once in a while there will be a glimmer of hope from a poster that isn't completely jaded already but that ship seems to have sailed a while back.
jay pettitt on 21/8/2013 at 18:38
Quote Posted by SneakyJack
Your selective memory must have missed the post I quoted that originally began the discussion where Fett looks to have lost his mind directly toward an employee of the studio. Unless you're saying this subforum doesn't have specific moderators or he's not moderator of this subforum in particular or whatever other strawman we're tossing into the mix. Regardless, I'll let everyone get back to their regularly scheduled woe is me insular circle jerk about how the sky is falling because it does no good to try to offer a perspective from the other side when it's obviously just one big pile-on in the favor of doom and gloom here. One sided discussions are boring and everything in this anticipation subforum has been a chore to read for a while now. I've only bothered because once in a while there will be a glimmer of hope from a poster that isn't completely jaded already but that ship seems to have sailed a while back.
Fett isn't a moderator on the Thief IV Anticipation fora. He has no admin rights or responsibilities here (and other strawmen). Your moderators are demagogue, pavlovscat, nickie and Nightwalker.
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 18:53
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
Yes, in the crate edge situation. Seriously, this isn't hard man. You've been given the answer to this question multiple times, and the reason it's remained the same wasn't because I didn't understand your question.
It's because that's the answer.
I never said you didn't understand the question.
You didn't answer it.
The correct answer is -
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
it'll only cause you to mantle the crate if you're standing still or moving towards it. Move in any other direction and press the button and you'll swoop in said direction.
Instead you said
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
If you're pointing the swoop away from said structure, the swoop takes priority.
Which is not the same thing. It omits moving in other directions.
And then you said
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
Again, if you point the swoop away from the ledge, you'll swoop. If you're looking at the ledge and standing still/moving towards it, you'll climb it.
Looking at the ledge, not looking at the wall below the ledge. Combine that with the fact you have to have Garrett within reach of the ledge.
Which is also not the same thing. It also omits moving in other directions.
And then you said
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
And your expectation is what? To swoop forward a foot and a half into the wall you're standing next to and facing like a total idiot?
Except you pussied out and changed idiot to clod.
Finally, sarcasm. The lowest form of wit.
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
You mean by pointing the swoop away from the ledge, like I told you twice? You do understand which direction "forward" is, right?
In the end you did explain how it works. It took you a while, but you did have your homework to do so I suppose you were distracted by some tough algebra or something.
In summary - you failed to fully explain the situation and were frustrated at your own inadequacy before finally coming around and explaining it.
Aaaaaanyway.
If the system does work exactly like that it's not too bad actually.
However..
Quote Posted by b1skit
I agree with you on the classic controls being perfect, in the context of the classic Thief games. Eidos-Montreal's Thief is not a 1:1 remake, so it only makes sense that the controls aren't 1:1 either - and this certainly doesn't mean that they're not perfect within the new context of Eidos-Montreal's Thief.
This does mean that the gameplay will be quite different to what Thief players are used to though, doesn't it?
Master Taffer 512 on 21/8/2013 at 18:59
Al_B figured it out in one post, but what the f*** ever. Last time I take time out of my day to answer your request.